Maretron vs. Airmar Ultrasonic Wind

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Back on the WSO100 vs Airmar, I personally know 4 people with WSO100s, and everyone of them has had multiple failures. I have had two failures in 3 years, and am replacing with Airmar. No more WSOs for me.

Actually, you know 5 people. Mine also failed.

The cause seems to be poor weather sealing. Mine failed after a summer storm with horizontal rain.

[Jerry Woodward]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Actually, you know 5 people. Mine also failed.

The cause seems to be poor weather sealing. Mine failed after a summer storm with horizontal rain.

Holy cats, sorry to hear that. And with all the research you did! How long did it last, like 2 years? I guess I'll go back to looking at the more tried and true anemometer/vane.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Jerry Woodward

Holy cats, sorry to hear that. And with all the research you did! How long did it last, like 2 years? I guess I'll go back to looking at the more tried and true anemometer/vane.

Yes, it was really disappointing. It lasted 3 years of admittedly pretty hard use in all weather and thousands of miles. It was really good when it was working right.

A good samaritan from this forum loaned me a spare one -- so as soon as I have crew to get me up the mast, I'll swap it out and send my bad one off for repair.

I'm not sure what I will do when I get it back. Maybe an LGJ Capteurs one. Or maybe just put my repaired one back up. Maybe they've improved the weather sealing.

When I renovated my electronics, I actually left the old Raymarine wind instrument at the masthead, thinking I would keep it as a backup. I never hooked it up, as I would need a Seatalk to NMEA adapter. I think I'm going to get an adapter and hook it up now. With a backup, I will be a bit more relaxed about the WSO100. But it shouldn't need backing up, of course!

[Outlaw7]

I worked for a large Marine Electronics Dealer in South Florida. We quit selling the Maretron sensor because of failures. We went with airmar.

[softdown]

Some of us are just cruiser wannabe's at this point. For us, watching others can be quite educational and voyeuristic.

SVDelos replaced his pretty sophisticated electronics with Maretron and is happy with the cabling and connectors. The Maretron wind and weather gauge has no moving parts. A bird had flown off with some parts from his last weather station. Perhaps some properly applied silicone would help with severe weather intrusions?

[Mycroft]

Impossible to make something like that weather proof after the fact. Maretron makes great cabling, but I'm getting disappointed with their hardware as well. One of their DC current monitors failed on me.

I went with the more expensive Airmar wind sensor because it had some additional data. So far, the Airmar has held up perfectly through our journey last year up the inside passage to Haines, AK, a winter in Sitka, AK, and a late Spring trip (the wrong way) down the west coast of Vancouver Island through several gales.

[CarinaPDX]

I am planning on buying a wind sensor in the future, and appreciate the comments with respect to the Maretron's reliability. I was already tending away from Maretron as a result of their support. I have a Maretron compass, which has both 0183 and 2000 interfaces, and when I installed it in 2009 I was able to update the firmware via the 0183 interface and an updater program on a PC. They no longer support 0183 for firmware upgrades - it has to be done over N2K. And if done with a PC you have to buy their USB-N2K adapter - they do not support the Actisense product that I have. I will not play ball with companies that try to lock me into their proprietary products. Airmar does support the Actisense adapter for their updates, so the decision is easy. That said, their cabling, connectors, and especially their multi-port boxes are the best for DeviceNet (N2K) systems.

Greg

[barnakiel]

Argh .. ehhhmmm .... ?

So which tablet (iOS or Android) software accepts N2K?

For if you buy a N2K sensor, your next buy is a converter back to n183. No?

I used quite a number of packages and cannot remember one that used N2K. Time flies though.

So, which software for mobile devices accepts N2K data input?

Thanks,
b.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Argh .. ehhhmmm .... ?

So which tablet (iOS or Android) software accepts N2K?

For if you buy a N2K sensor, your next buy is a converter back to n183. No?

I used quite a number of packages and cannot remember one that used N2K. Time flies though.

So, which software for mobile devices accepts N2K data input?

Thanks,
b.

This has been discussed. The answer is none that I know of, but it doesn't matter.

All these ultrasonic wind sensors, AFAIK, can be connected to output 0183, if you don't need the data for an N2K network.

And if you have an N2K network, then it's pretty easy to get the data translated to 0183 -- with the caveat that not all N2K sentences have counterparts in 0183.

How to get data from an N2K network onto 0183-speaking devices? Like computers running OpenCPN or tablets running INavX, etc., etc., etc.?

Let me count the ways:

1. Via USB with an N2K to 0183 converter like from Maretron ($$$) or Actisense.

2. Most modern plotters convert most N2K data (unfortunately usually excluding AIS) to 0183 and output it via an 0183 talker port. A very simple RS422-USB adapter costing a few bucks will put that data onto a computer.

3. Some plotters will now convert N2K network data to 0183 and send it out over WiFi directly.

4. All touchscreen B&G and Simrad plotters convert N2K network data to 0183 and put it out over Ethernet. Which can be read by any router, or by the Navico WiFi 1 router, to be received over wifi by any portable device.

5. There are boxes which convert N2K network data to 0183 and output it over WiFi, and usually also have USB connections.

No doubt this is not a complete list.


I personally use (4), and it works excellently. I use the network data on OpenCPN on ship's computer, and on tablets for various programs including INavX, EDO Instruments, etc. I used to connect the ship's computer to the plotters 0183 output, and finally realized there's no point -- get more data over wifi (AIS).

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

This has been discussed. The answer is none that I know of, but it doesn't matter.

All these ultrasonic wind sensors, AFAIK, can be connected to output 0183, if you don't need the data for an N2K network.

And if you have an N2K network, then it's pretty easy to get the data translated to 0183 -- with the caveat that not all N2K sentences have counterparts in 0183.

How to get data from an N2K network onto 0183-speaking devices? Like computers running OpenCPN or tablets running INavX, etc., etc., etc.?

Let me count the ways:

1. Via USB with an N2K to 0183 converter like from Maretron ($$$) or Actisense.

2. Most modern plotters convert most N2K data (unfortunately usually excluding AIS) to 0183 and output it via an 0183 talker port. A very simple RS422-USB adapter costing a few bucks will put that data onto a computer.

3. Some plotters will now convert N2K network data to 0183 and send it out over WiFi directly.

4. All touchscreen B&G and Simrad plotters convert N2K network data to 0183 and put it out over Ethernet. Which can be read by any router, or by the Navico WiFi 1 router, to be received over wifi by any portable device.

5. There are boxes which convert N2K network data to 0183 and output it over WiFi, and usually also have USB connections.

No doubt this is not a complete list.


I personally use (4), and it works excellently. I use the network data on OpenCPN on ship's computer, and on tablets for various programs including INavX, EDO Instruments, etc. I used to connect the ship's computer to the plotters 0183 output, and finally realized there's no point -- get more data over wifi (AIS).

+1!

I agree there are ways around the limitation. Any limitation.

Just hoped that in the meantime someone delivered a N2K capable App.

It is a bit odd that with so much pressure from the big names to go for N2K nobody delivers a N2K capable App.

b.

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

It is a bit odd that with so much pressure from the big names to go for N2K nobody delivers a N2K capable App.

Those big names envision one of their expensive MFDs at the center of an N2K system, not an app on a tablet or RPi. To just get the official standard one must become a member of the N2K organization ($$$), and agree to an NDA. I'm not sure what it takes to get access to proprietary PGNs, for instance for calibrating sensors. Reverse engineering is getting there but it was never going to be easy - just as intended.

Greg

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

(...) To just get the official standard one must become a member of the N2K organization ($$$), and agree to an NDA. (...)

Greg

Yep. To put the nmea2000 sticker on your product you need these.

But, what happens if say Georgeos Kartifakis builds an App and publishes it free on Play (Android Google shop). Now if this App can read and display N2K data, will Georgeos get prosecuted?

And as far as reverse engineering goes. Does it not take one slack employee at any company that makes N2K stuff?

I know many very legally ambivalent IT specialists and lawyers. Oops. ;-)

Just talking.

It is truly a shame that we have to translate N2K (the better protocol) to n183 (the worse protocol) to get read data from a wind sensor. Sort of like killing the whole idea of the 'better' stuff.

b.

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

But, what happens if say Georgeos Kartifakis builds an App and publishes it free on Play (Android Google shop). Now if this App can read and display N2K data, will Georgeos get prosecuted?

If he did it without using official materials or sources then I think not.

And as far as reverse engineering goes. Does it not take one slack employee at any company that makes N2K stuff?

Yes. But HE could be financially ruined. The N2K folks will certainly enforce the NDA if they can prove it. As a practical matter, once a company has paid the big bucks for membership and access to the standards they are not going to like having competition from those that didn't. Spilling the beans is potentially a career-ending stunt, as honoring NDAs is serious business in high technology.

BTW I was just over at the Actisense site and noticed that while their SDK and library is available to developers for free (for using Actisense products to connect N2K to a PC) but they require that the devs first buy the N2K specs.

Of course there are some who have done the reverse engineering (OpenSkipper and SignalK IIUC). And I happen to have encountered an Airmar spec that details the proprietary commands. This is useful for calibrating the sensors directly so that the data on the N2K backbone needs no correction before use, and assures that all displays agree (as opposed to having to enter corrections into every display). This is particularly useful for depth, but also speed (which can have different multipliers for different ranges of speed). Some MFDs support this. Maretron and Airmar signed a deal a few years back to support each others' transducers with their displays. But more difficult to reverse engineer. Now if I can find that old spec...

It is truly a shame that we have to translate N2K (the better protocol) to n183 (the worse protocol) to get read data from a wind sensor. Sort of like killing the whole idea of the 'better' stuff.

It's about money, not quality.

Greg

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

If he did it without using official materials or sources then I think not.

Yes. But HE could be financially ruined. The N2K folks will certainly enforce the NDA if they can prove it. As a practical matter, once a company has paid the big bucks for membership and access to the standards they are not going to like having competition from those that didn't. Spilling the beans is potentially a career-ending stunt, as honoring NDAs is serious business in high technology.

BTW I was just over at the Actisense site and noticed that while their SDK and library is available to developers for free (for using Actisense products to connect N2K to a PC) but they require that the devs first buy the N2K specs.

Of course there are some who have done the reverse engineering (OpenSkipper and SignalK IIUC). And I happen to have encountered an Airmar spec that details the proprietary commands. This is useful for calibrating the sensors directly so that the data on the N2K backbone needs no correction before use, and assures that all displays agree (as opposed to having to enter corrections into every display). This is particularly useful for depth, but also speed (which can have different multipliers for different ranges of speed). Some MFDs support this. Maretron and Airmar signed a deal a few years back to support each others' transducers with their displays. But more difficult to reverse engineer. Now if I can find that old spec...

It's about money, not quality.

Greg

Thanks for this view. Most appreciated. The more I learn about NMEA2000 the less I like it.

I think for the time being I will keep clear of N2K sensors and get a n183 one instead. My boat has very few devices (depth, gps, dsc, ais) now I will add a wind one.

Good news is people who have big boats with many devices and sensors do not mind the extra buck. So probably everybody is happy.

Cheers,
b.

[hellosailor]

Riddle me this guys.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who has ever tried to align something perfectly with the boat to make sure "dead ahead" was dead ahead and not offset just a little bit.

So by putting an integral compass, perfectly aligned at the factory, in the same fitting as the apparent wind sensor...wouldn't that have the inherent advantage that the wind direction was always perfectly aligned with the compass direction? And even if the unit was not perfectly mounted, the wind direction would still be calculated, read, displayed, perfectly properly aligned with the integral compass direction?

Or should I put the decaf away and get out the good stuff?