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01-07-2017, 14:15
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#76
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 9,319
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Re: Maretron vs. Airmar Ultrasonic Wind
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor
Riddle me this guys.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who has ever tried to align something perfectly with the boat to make sure "dead ahead" was dead ahead and not offset just a little bit.
So by putting an integral compass, perfectly aligned at the factory, in the same fitting as the apparent wind sensor...wouldn't that have the inherent advantage that the wind direction was always perfectly aligned with the compass direction? And even if the unit was not perfectly mounted, the wind direction would still be calculated, read, displayed, perfectly properly aligned with the integral compass direction?
Or should I put the decaf away and get out the good stuff?
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For sailing you also need apparent wind direction, which requires the unit be mounted perfectly on the centerline or have an adjustment. The internal compass can't directly compensate for this.
__________________
Paul
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01-07-2017, 16:36
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#77
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 20,420
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Re: Maretron vs. Airmar Ultrasonic Wind
The sensor does not have to be centered except that the apparent readout will be where you place it. It must only be aligned as you need some sense of apparent vs. WHAT? Exactly, the alignment line. But it can be off center. You may notice some difference due to wash-up to be asymmetric then.
For app wind vs. true readout this is best done outside the box by comparing with some source of magnetic alignment and then correcting for the magnetic vs. true difference. It would take a high quality, well positioned and calibrated sensor (also if magnetometer type) to reduce the errors to near nil. Doable, but possibly only worth it in some critical applications, not in the boat. Imho you may spend your energy better correcting the sensor for acceleration (all new sensors do this though).
With plain Ray sensors one can easily get true wind to within 3 maybe 2 degrees. This should be good enough for 99% of users, I think.
I too like to read true as sailing the oceans this helps me spot regular daily variations. Then I gybe the boat accordingly, arriving at our destinations a whooping 6 hours earlier than without! ;-)
ymmv
Anyone using the French sensors? (LCJ) Do they live longer than the WSO?
Cheers,
b.
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01-07-2017, 17:15
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#78
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 9,319
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Re: Maretron vs. Airmar Ultrasonic Wind
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul L
For sailing you also need apparent wind direction, which requires the unit be mounted perfectly on the centerline or have an adjustment. The internal compass can't directly compensate for this.
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That is parallel to the center line, not actually on it as B pointed out.
__________________
Paul
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02-07-2017, 05:26
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#79
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always in motion is the future
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 18,866
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Re: Maretron vs. Airmar Ultrasonic Wind
Three points: Maretron has fixed the weatherproofing of their product. There may still be problems but my replacement sensor is still okay. Often the trouble is around the humidity sensor and Airmar has that problem as well.
Second, Maretron requires the Maretron USB adapter like Airmar requires the Actisense adapter. You can't say that Airmar is better in that regard because they din't have an USB adapter and don't support the Maretron adapter nor anything else other than the Actisense.
Third, avoiding n2k and going for nmea0183 because of "the problems with n2k" is 100% wrong. If you want to have a trouble free network, you go with n2k and make sure you buy good components. Nmea0183 is a world of hurt compared to n2k.
__________________
“It’s a trap!” - Admiral Ackbar.
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02-07-2017, 11:41
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#80
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Nantes - France
Posts: 13
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Re: Maretron vs. Airmar Ultrasonic Wind
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel
The sensor does not have to be centered except that the apparent readout will be where you place it. It must only be aligned as you need some sense of apparent vs. WHAT? Exactly, the alignment line. But it can be off center. You may notice some difference due to wash-up to be asymmetric then.
For app wind vs. true readout this is best done outside the box by comparing with some source of magnetic alignment and then correcting for the magnetic vs. true difference. It would take a high quality, well positioned and calibrated sensor (also if magnetometer type) to reduce the errors to near nil. Doable, but possibly only worth it in some critical applications, not in the boat. Imho you may spend your energy better correcting the sensor for acceleration (all new sensors do this though).
With plain Ray sensors one can easily get true wind to within 3 maybe 2 degrees. This should be good enough for 99% of users, I think.
I too like to read true as sailing the oceans this helps me spot regular daily variations. Then I gybe the boat accordingly, arriving at our destinations a whooping 6 hours earlier than without! ;-)
ymmv
Anyone using the French sensors? (LCJ) Do they live longer than the WSO?
Cheers,
b.
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Please see here:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...um+-+Emails%29
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03-07-2017, 14:51
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#81
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Boat: 31' Cape George Cutter
Posts: 3,270
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Re: Maretron vs. Airmar Ultrasonic Wind
Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi
Maretron requires the Maretron USB adapter like Airmar requires the Actisense adapter. You can't say that Airmar is better in that regard because they din't have an USB adapter and don't support the Maretron adapter nor anything else other than the Actisense.
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Not quite correct. The Actisense adapter has been out there much longer than the Maretron one, and has long ago become the de-facto standard for interfacing PC's to N2K. The Actisense supports three OSes (Windows, Mac & Linux) and has been used by many developers of marine applications (see compatibility list: Actisense - Compatibility). Besides being a late arrival the Maretron unit only has drivers for Windows and only has Maretron software listed as compatible, and is really an attempt to lock in customers. I think that is a world of difference. And the mindset that it reflects is the reason I will be using Airmar exclusively.
Greg
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05-07-2017, 18:14
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#82
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,225
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Re: Maretron vs. Airmar Ultrasonic Wind
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel
+1!
I agree there are ways around the limitation. Any limitation.
Just hoped that in the meantime someone delivered a N2K capable App.
It is a bit odd that with so much pressure from the big names to go for N2K nobody delivers a N2K capable App.
b.
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Coastal Explorer has support for native N2K. But it's windows only - no ipads.
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05-07-2017, 19:03
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#83
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always in motion is the future
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 18,866
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Re: Maretron vs. Airmar Ultrasonic Wind
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarinaPDX
Not quite correct. The Actisense adapter has been out there much longer than the Maretron one, and has long ago become the de-facto standard for interfacing PC's to N2K. The Actisense supports three OSes (Windows, Mac & Linux) and has been used by many developers of marine applications (see compatibility list: Actisense - Compatibility). Besides being a late arrival the Maretron unit only has drivers for Windows and only has Maretron software listed as compatible, and is really an attempt to lock in customers. I think that is a world of difference. And the mindset that it reflects is the reason I will be using Airmar exclusively.
Greg
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I'm sorry for countering but you really are wrong. The Maretron USB100 was out long before the Actisense NGT. The Maretron does not have Mac drivers because they aren't needed: the Mac just works, no need to install extra drivers (same for Linux)
Last but not least, the Maretron USB100 works great with MaxSea as well as OpenCPN just like the Actisense does. I have both and both work fine. Actisense seems to have abandoned the NMEAreader software development though... still doesn't recognize the Vesper manufacturer code.
I think you are thinking of native n2k support for apps, which is what the Actisense does. I don't gave any apps that support that though, they all use NMEA0183 emulation which both adapters support well enough.
See this link for some of the history discussed: http://www.panbo.com/forum/2009/03/b...-thoughts.html
__________________
“It’s a trap!” - Admiral Ackbar.
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05-07-2017, 19:57
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#84
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,225
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Re: Maretron vs. Airmar Ultrasonic Wind
Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi
Three points: Maretron has fixed the weatherproofing of their product. There may still be problems but my replacement sensor is still okay. Often the trouble is around the humidity sensor and Airmar has that problem as well.
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I wouldn't declare the WSO100 "fixed" by any means. Of the people I know with them, 100% have experience greater than 100% failure rate, and that's all in the last year. The most recent were within the past two months, and one of them was only a month old.
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07-07-2017, 06:11
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#85
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always in motion is the future
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 18,866
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Re: Maretron vs. Airmar Ultrasonic Wind
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanglewood
I wouldn't declare the WSO100 "fixed" by any means. Of the people I know with them, 100% have experience greater than 100% failure rate, and that's all in the last year. The most recent were within the past two months, and one of them was only a month old.
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You pulled my quote out of context. I said they fixed the waterproofing where, in the past, some filled up with water, the new ones don't do that anymore.
__________________
“It’s a trap!” - Admiral Ackbar.
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07-07-2017, 07:37
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#86
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 20,420
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Re: Maretron vs. Airmar Ultrasonic Wind
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanglewood
Coastal Explorer has support for native N2K. But it's windows only - no ipads.
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I went to their website and they say it takes an interface (a box). Nemo box.
So apparently no App accepts N2K. Which is odd. Nmea2000 and we are 2017. 17 years and not a single compatible App.
Bummer.
Cheers,
barnakiel
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07-07-2017, 08:22
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#87
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,225
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Re: Maretron vs. Airmar Ultrasonic Wind
Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi
You pulled my quote out of context. I said they fixed the waterproofing where, in the past, some filled up with water, the new ones don't do that anymore.
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Actually, I did mean it in that context. The most recent failure which was a brand new unit in operation for only about a month, failed during a wind driven rain storm. Obviously I can't say for certain, but that fits the symptoms of all the other water intrusion failures. The other recent failure under those same circumstances was also within the last couple of months on a unit that was about a year old, and the second replacement. So all the evidence I see says the problem is still alive and well.
My own WSO failures have all been the humidity sensor which is the other thing you mentioned. I'm on my scond unit which failed within a month of installation. But interestingly, now maybe 5 months later, the humidity just came back.
Even if the airmar humidity is prone tomfailure, it is a simple $100 swap of the humidity module which is a much easier and less expensive fix.
BTW! i am generally big fan and supporter of Maretron and their products, and have one of the larger networks out there apparently. But they do have their lemons, and the WSO is one of them. I also had quite a bit of trouble with their GPS and after the second return to factory for repair, replaced it with a Furuno GP330 which has been trouble free. But their products are 90% all good, and I think they are one of the best vendors in the industry.
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07-07-2017, 08:27
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#88
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,225
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Re: Maretron vs. Airmar Ultrasonic Wind
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel
I went to their website and they say it takes an interface (a box). Nemo box.
So apparently no App accepts N2K. Which is odd. Nmea2000 and we are 2017. 17 years and not a single compatible App.
Bummer.
Cheers,
barnakiel
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Well, for any of these devices you need a way to get the N2K data. So some form of N2K to PC interface is required. For CE there is Nemo, their older NT50, a Maretron USB100, and I'm pretty sure the Actisense device.
By the way, if you use CE, Nemo is awesome. I've been Alpha/Bata testing for around 18 months and really like it.
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07-07-2017, 10:04
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#89
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֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 15,136
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Re: Maretron vs. Airmar Ultrasonic Wind
"100% have experience greater than 100% failure rate,"
Uhhuh. More than 100 out of every 100 pieces have failed?
Is that like, they have imaginary friends? Or they just got too upset to count?
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07-07-2017, 10:22
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#90
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,225
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Re: Maretron vs. Airmar Ultrasonic Wind
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor
"100% have experience greater than 100% failure rate,"
Uhhuh. More than 100 out of every 100 pieces have failed?
Is that like, they have imaginary friends? Or they just got too upset to count?
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Yes, a mathmatical puzzler indeed...
What I mean is that 100% of the boats I know have had multiple failures. So although perhaps more illustrative than mathmatical, that greater than 100% failure rate is meant to capture the minimum of two failures that each boat has experienced.
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