Class B AIS waste of money

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

We have an actual, professional, ship's captain in this thread -- did you read what he wrote? They do not "turn off" Class B targets. They turn off ALL alarms, in crowded harbors, but the targets are still visible on the screen.

If you get in the way of a ship in a channel in your little boat, he will do whatever he can to avoid running you down, as he is required to. That may mean putting the helm over if he has room, putting the machinery in astern, blowing the horn, whatever, in addition to cursing you, of course. Note that he might not even be able to see you from the bridge, if you are less than a cable under his bows. He would not ordinarily be using AIS much in a crowded harbor -- that's not what it's designed for. Either Class A or Class B targets. But there might be a case where he might want the data for some reason, if it's available. Certainly doesn't hurt anything to make the data available.

The information would come in real handy when he is defending his actions in court after he turns you to crab bait

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen

I laughed out loud thinking some poor smuck arguing col regs meant he had right of way.

Nothing to laugh about -- Nobody wants to be in that situation. COLREGS will be the criteria used to decide the outcome on judgment day.

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen

I laughed out loud thinking some poor smuck arguing col regs meant he had right of way.

Would either of you mind pointing out where anyone in this thread has suggested that their Class-B AIS gives them any special privileges? Is anyone planning on being less prudent because they have a transponder? Is anyone claiming that it's a good idea to get yourself in front of a ship because you have a transponder?

Please show me where anyone has even implied this, because I'm just not seeing it.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen

I laughed out loud thinking some poor smuck arguing col regs meant he had right of way.

What does that have to do with anything discussed here?

[SV DestinyAscen]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

Would either of you mind pointing out where anyone in this thread has suggested that their Class-B AIS gives them any special privileges? Is anyone planning on being less prudent because they have a transponder? Is anyone claiming that it's a good idea to get yourself in front of a ship because you have a transponder?

Please show me where anyone has even implied this, because I'm just not seeing it.

Nah mate it's my inner voice ascribed to the folks who get huff and puffy arguing with each other in the col reg threads.

Here I'll try and delete it since obviously no one else was thinking like me where this was headed.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

Would either of you mind pointing out where anyone in this thread has suggested that their Class-B AIS gives them any special privileges? Is anyone planning on being less prudent because they have a transponder? Is anyone claiming that it's a good idea to get yourself in front of a ship because you have a transponder?

Please show me where anyone has even implied this, because I'm just not seeing it.

Paul my post was in direct response to dockheads post specificly his last sentence.

( But there might be a case where he might want the data for some reason, if it's available. Certainly doesn't hurt anything to make the data available.)

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Paul my post was in direct response to dockheads post specificly his last sentence.

( But there might be a case where he might want the data for some reason, if it's available. Certainly doesn't hurt anything to make the data available.)

What would that ever have to do with "right of way", which anyway doesn't even exist at sea?


An example of why the data might be needed on the ship's bridge, even in a busy harbor where AIS is not normally used much:

Some idiot in a boat blunders into the channel and pauses. A ship is making his way down the channel. Is the boat moving, or not? Will it be out of the channel? You can't quite see from the bridge (or you REALLY don't see, once the boat is a cable or whatever away and the boat is hidden by the bows), and ARPA is not giving you anything because you're too close -- radar also can't see under the bows. But AIS could give you this crucial information so that you could decide whether or not to take some desperate action. Could even tell you whether you could turn to port or starboard, something you might not be able to see at all.

Probably not a common situation, but you could think of quite a few other scenarios where the data could really help you out.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

What would that ever have to do with "right of way", which anyway doesn't even exist at sea?


An example of why the data might be needed on the ship's bridge, even in a busy harbor where AIS is not normally used much:

Some idiot in a boat blunders into the channel and pauses. A ship is making his way down the channel. Is the boat moving, or not? Will it be out of the channel? You can't quite see from the bridge (or you REALLY don't see, once the boat is a cable or whatever away and the boat is hidden by the bows), and ARPA is not giving you anything because you're too close -- radar also can't see under the bows. But AIS could give you this crucial information so that you could decide whether or not to take some desperate action. Could even tell you whether you could turn to port or starboard, something you might not be able to see at all.

Probably not a common situation, but you could think of quite a few other scenarios where the data could really help you out.

Class B ? 30 second update? Under the bow? AIS would be as much use as tits on a bull in that situation.

30 seconds is a very long time on the bridge of a ship in pilotage waters.....

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

What would that ever have to do with "right of way", which anyway doesn't even exist at sea?


An example of why the data might be needed on the ship's bridge, even in a busy harbor where AIS is not normally used much:

Some idiot in a boat blunders into the channel and pauses. A ship is making his way down the channel. Is the boat moving, or not? Will it be out of the channel? You can't quite see from the bridge (or you REALLY don't see, once the boat is a cable or whatever away and the boat is hidden by the bows), and ARPA is not giving you anything because you're too close -- radar also can't see under the bows. But AIS could give you this crucial information so that you could decide whether or not to take some desperate action. Could even tell you whether you could turn to port or starboard, something you might not be able to see at all.

Probably not a common situation, but you could think of quite a few other scenarios where the data could really help you out.

Sometimes it is just knowing that the computer shows everything that happened and the actions of bridge crew prior to the actual collision .
Examples abound

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3_1q9cV558

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by DotDun

Please explain your tactics in a harbor that's so "cluttered" with vessels that you "have to" slow down to "read them all"?

Do you close your eyes and hope for the best??

Go back and read my thread that you responded to. Read it slowly and think about it. Then, adjust your response so it is a response to what I posted.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by blu3534

In a channel in a harbor the AIS is not so important, sure. But - as in my example - at night in the 'Nordsee' I think it is/was very important. The big ships probably shifted some small degrees and passed near me. They had me on the (AIS) radar; as everyone else here, I think your 'turn off the class B' statement is not defensible.

PS: sorry for my now deleted not so nice word in my first post. I'm no english native speaker and didn't think it to be so strong

I did not make the friggin turn off class B statement in the first place. The person who started this thread made it.

Reading is important. Understanding what you just read is even more important!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Class B ? 30 second update? Under the bow? AIS would be as much use as tits on a bull in that situation.

30 seconds is a very long time on the bridge of a ship in pilotage waters.....

Yes, granted, of course, that this is certainly a major limitation.

But if it's the only data you have, it might not actually be useless at all -- even if it's limited by the fact that the system will assume steady course and speed during the 30 second intervals between transmissions.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by rwidman

I did not make the friggin turn off class B statement in the first place. The person who started this thread made it.

Reading is important. Understanding what you just read is even more important!

...and they were refering to a piece in G-Captain which led in turn to here Panbo: The Marine Electronics Hub: Class B AIS filtering, the word from Dr. Norris

It seems that there are some AIS out there that can indeed get rid of Class B entirely.......

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Too much information is clutter and that's not good. Is it good to have so many road signs on the highway that you have to slow down to read them all?

Again, that was the point of this thread. That the ships often turn off the class B signals. If they turn them off, you might as well not have bought the AIS transceiver in the first place. Actually, you are in a worse situation because you think they are seeing your position but they are not.

Originally Posted by DotDun

Please explain your tactics in a harbor that's so "cluttered" with vessels that you "have to" slow down to "read them all"?

Do you close your eyes and hope for the best??

Originally Posted by rwidman

Go back and read my thread that you responded to. Read it slowly and think about it. Then, adjust your response so it is a response to what I posted.

No adjustment necessary.

You need to understand that when your AIS screen is so cluttered with targets that you have to slow down to "read them" (using your analogy), it's most likely best that you slow down anyway and at least have a look around. And yes, if there are so many road signs that you have to slow down to "read them", it's probably due to lots of navigation decisions are needed real soon! Since you seem to agree with the thesis of this thread, one can only assume that in addition to disregarding AIS Class B (or road signs using you analogy), you would also disregard other tools (your eyes) in a busy harbor as it might slow you down and force you to "read" the situation.

Your euphoria with the OP de-valuing Class B AIS is showing through!

[newhaul]

Well all of this solves it for me my next boat gets a class A system