Will electric outboards start replacing diesel inboards?

[cj88]

The way I see it, electric propulsion for boats currently is viable or not viable based on your needs, or perceived needs as we do tend to focus a lot in our lives on convenience over real need. There are a lot of factors at play, light or heavy displacement, length, speed and/or range required, charging ability, single or multihull, finances, etc. For many, it won't suit their patterns of use but for some, it will. I would love to see all boats go electric but it's just not possible right now and I wouldn't suggest someone rip out a functioning diesel and replace it with electric based on financial considerations but at repower time it may be an option. The two biggest hurdles for me are the cost of lithium batteries to get enough capacity and the ability to adequately recharge if you are not marina based.

As to power generation for countries, more and more are moving towards renewables, some faster and more successfully than others and then there are those that will need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the future. But it's not just about how we repower but also about how we consume that needs to be addressed. We do waste a lot in the name of convenience. By becoming more aware and more efficient in how we operate can have real financial benefits but people, as a rule, don't like change.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by cj88

The way I see it, electric propulsion for boats currently is viable or not viable based on your needs, or perceived needs as we do tend to focus a lot in our lives on convenience over real need. There are a lot of factors at play, light or heavy displacement, length, speed and/or range required, charging ability, single or multihull, finances, etc. For many, it won't suit their patterns of use but for some, it will. I would love to see all boats go electric but it's just not possible right now and I wouldn't suggest someone rip out a functioning diesel and replace it with electric based on financial considerations but at repower time it may be an option. The two biggest hurdles for me are the cost of lithium batteries to get enough capacity and the ability to adequately recharge if you are not marina based.

As to power generation for countries, more and more are moving towards renewables, some faster and more successfully than others and then there are those that will need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the future. But it's not just about how we repower but also about how we consume that needs to be addressed. We do waste a lot in the name of convenience. By becoming more aware and more efficient in how we operate can have real financial benefits but people, as a rule, don't like change.

electric propulsion would be great for class racing sailboats that motor out sail the race then motor back to the dock . Doesn't need a lot of battery reserve. ( there are actually several small sailors here that use the big electric trolling motors in and out of the marina.
On long range cruising boats not so much .
Batteries can't overcome the power density of diesel fuel.

As to shore based power
the sad fact is there is actually not enough of the raw materials to make the equipment to power the entire planet via renewables . The only way to even come close is to rid people of their anti nuclear bias . And technically nuclear is not renewable. But is basically carbon neutral after the first 20 or so years in operation . The bug problem so far is the 25 to 30 year life expectancy of nuclear power plants.

[cjheath]

Originally Posted by LuvSun

Good man 100% what I was trying to say re Nuke, and we dont even have any in Aus or NZ yet, but they are the future, incredibly different to old school Nuke plants. I work in the Energy sector and Telco sector. Last time I was in Energy, I had to sit in on a conference that was around Small Modern nuke plants and Tesla plants linked.

And thank you for caring about our Ozone hole above our 2 countries.

Hi Luvsun, am behind you all the way. I'm a sailer and an electrical tech in the Oil&Gas business and other power related industries. There are already very large marine vessels, ferries etc in service and planned for various places. ( eg, https://electrek.co/2018/02/03/all-e...emission-cost/ ) I do think that the end of the fossil fuel industry is a fair way off but perhaps not quite as far as many would like to think. In my opinion it will be driven by the cost advantages of non-fossil energy sources not by a lack of fossil fuel.



As for the practicality of electric drives in yachts i think it's early days still but largely inevitable. Relatively minor advances in battery tech /cost in the not too distant future will tip the scale and it will be game changer. I do feel that at this stage the existing technology with it's associated range, charge time etc.. is mainly for the hard core early adopters but we're well on the way to a whole new way of doing things. For the seriously salty among us yachts can travel a very, very long way without hours and hours of engine or battery time. (refer Capt James Cook et al.!)


When i was a teenager in the 70s the idea of having a phone (ie, computer) in your pocket was just utterly absurd. You see where this is heading..?


(One small technical correction though, I'm 99% sure that the hole in the ozone layer is not due to carbon emissions per se but rather more complex compounds such as CFCs (eg old style refrigerant gases etc). Global warming / climate change is predominantly a resut of CO2, methane etc.. Both are a big deal and need to be managed and monitored very carefully)


Keep up the wondering! Cheers, Chris.

[LuvSun]

Originally Posted by newhaul

the its cfc's is a big financial scene by the manufacturer . Their patent was due to run out and they had just obtained the patent for the hcfc's which are considered the safe alternative .
As to the melanoma studies I try for scientific journals when possible and tend to lean towards the latest reports. But I will continue to look into the subject if there are questions on the validity of the studies.

yes me too, I tried to send you a medical journal PDF but it failed. Aussie isnt so bad but I still burn faster there than say Greece or Germany in summer.

[LuvSun]

Originally Posted by cjheath

(One small technical correction though, I'm 99% sure that the hole in the ozone layer is not due to carbon emissions per se but rather more complex compounds such as CFCs (eg old style refrigerant gases etc). Global warming / climate change is predominantly a resut of CO2, methane etc.. Both are a big deal and need to be managed and monitored very carefully)


Keep up the wondering! Cheers, Chris.

Thanks mate. Im ALWAYS day dreaming of new ways to do things. I think managing technology projects and being inquisitive of technology as a young child (OMG WALKMANS) its always getting me into debates when they arent debates to me they are just discussions about what might happen and what cool things are happening.

Yeah its CFCs etc, I did correct that after, but not fond of any emissions. Acid rain is just NUTS !

Im a massive youtube documentary nut, and astro physics is my number 1 go to. I just think of what happened to Mars and how quickly the chain of events can occur. I feel like some people live life out of touch with the world around them, are fixated on modernism and capitalism and not being a sentient animal like the other animals around us, just a fair bit smarter (although if you have freedived with manta rays, you will know what its like to wonder what they are thinking).

In the power boat fishing scene the small electric outboards are hugely popular now, like minkotas, just to keep the angle right for the fish. But some people use them for power their Kayaks as small vessels. That carbon battery tech mentioned earlier is fascinating after some reading.

[cj88]

Originally Posted by LuvSun

yes me too, I tried to send you a medical journal PDF but it failed. Aussie isnt so bad but I still burn faster there than say Greece or Germany in summer.

NZ is definitely worse than OZ. I was in Auckland recently for a couple of weeks and pulled my convertible out of storage to use while I was there and one day with the top down was enough to burn. Rest of the time the top was up but living on the beach in Melbourne it's not as bad but still worse than in the tropics by a long shot.

[cj88]

Originally Posted by newhaul

As to shore based power the sad fact is there is actually not enough of the raw materials to make the equipment to power the entire planet via renewables. The only way to even come close is to rid people of their anti nuclear bias. And technically nuclear is not renewable. But is basically carbon neutral after the first 20 or so years in operation. The bug problem so far is the 25 to 30 year life expectancy of nuclear power plants.

I have no idea about the raw material requirements and would like to learn more, any links? I can understand the attraction for nuclear power but some countries like NZ will never allow it. Anyway, NZ produces most of its power with renewables already. Some European countries have made major leaps forward but the real ones to watch imho are China and India.

Some countries will need a cultural change before it will happen as they have been sold that "bigger is better" and we all need to own and consume as much as possible and convenience is king. That makes it harder to shift to a more efficient, less impactful way of living which would require far less power generation needs to begin with. Note that I am not talking about living in the past and going without but doing more and better with what we already have and thinking about what we really need and what are the impacts.

I can possibly see the day when some countries legislation, tax and duty regimes could penalise other countries not using renewables that want to do business with them. Some Governments already place environmental, labour or human rights requirements on their supply tenders so it's not out of the question.

The only sure thing though is that change is happening, as it always has.

[LuvSun]

Originally Posted by cj88

NZ is definitely worse than OZ. I was in Auckland recently for a couple of weeks and pulled my convertible out of storage to

Nothing worse than head/face burn, so easy to get heat stroke and need a drip in the AnE.

My last serious burn was on the Sunshine Coast.

I use SPF 50, but I feel I need more like 100. I dont trust any of the makes. Its easy to burn even with sun block.

[KP44]

Originally Posted by LuvSun

….and the world heading toward safe smaller nuclear options ….

Im wondering how hard for Sail boats retrofitting electric motors will be. I dont think very hard.

I watch a lot of Planetary Science and Quantum physics videos if you cant tell ;-p

A safer nuclear option? That sounds like just politics to sell more nuclear power. Fission reactors are dangerous and they create horrible poisons that must be "contained" forever. It is beyond our ability to contain anything that long.

I looked for an electric when I replaced my diesel. There was nothing available over 30 hp, so I retrofitted an efficient, low rpm diesel.

The stuff on television is called a Program for a reason. (grin)

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by KP44

A safer nuclear option? That sounds like just politics to sell more nuclear power. Fission reactors are dangerous and they create horrible poisons that must be "contained" forever. It is beyond our ability to contain anything that long.

I looked for an electric when I replaced my diesel. There was nothing available over 30 hp, so I retrofitted an efficient, low rpm diesel.

The stuff on television is called a Program for a reason. (grin)

look I to SMR reactors , pebble reactors and molten salt reactors they all can use the " spent" power rods from traditional reactors.
As far as electric inboard motors they have motors that go all the way into thousands of HP.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by newhaul

there is no such thing as an ozone hole. Itis is in fact just natural variations coupled with some bad choices in the past . There is no connection between ozone and the rates of melanoma. https://theconversation.com/why-does...one-hole-91850
As to ozone growth and depletion well there is an entire astrophysics group studying it and the solar connections.
The only thing musk ( tesla) is good at is conning people out of their money at an alarming rate.
Just look at what he did to the Australian power grid and prices thereof .
A few small smr plants would have been nice to have last winter I bet.

Can you please provide some sort of evidence to what 'he did to the Australian power grid and prices thereof' ? The reports I've seen are showing a reduction in power cost and an increase in service %age due to the rapid way it can respond to network deficiencies.

[hzcruiser]

Originally Posted by LuvSun

Its a curious question guys, dont be so hum bug ;-p

Curious? Serious?



I don't know. Did you "seriously" try and find the 100's of posts on this and other forums around that very same topic?

[tp12]

Originally Posted by tp12

Can you please provide some sort of evidence to what 'he did to the Australian power grid and prices thereof' ? The reports I've seen are showing a reduction in power cost and an increase in service %age due to the rapid way it can respond to network deficiencies.

Here's some of the articles on the subject:

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/t...avings-2018-10

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-...nd-gas/9625726

The future is busy arriving while some people say it's not possible and deride it.

Originally Posted by hzcruiser

Curious? Serious?



I don't know. Did you "seriously" try and find the 100's of posts on this and other forums around that very same topic?

Did you just add the word 'serious' and then try and hoist him with your own strawman? Come on ... And who cares if it's another post on a subject? New people, new technology in a fast moving industry ... maybe you'd be better served by just scrolling on? Thanks

[newhaul]

Here is the latest on the ozone hole.
I know from NASA but its still good data
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard...zone-depletion

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by tp12

Can you please provide some sort of evidence to what 'he did to the Australian power grid and prices thereof' ? The reports I've seen are showing a reduction in power cost and an increase in service %age due to the rapid way it can respond to network deficiencies.

The Aussie power savings is bait and switch. They eliminated the cheaper options and then said gosh...look how cheap tesla batteries are when compared to far more expensive options that are left.