Stacking rocks - why?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by westernspirit

...But I think many are missing the original poster's point and I agree with Lunita. Some of strive to find and spend time in untouched wilderness which is becoming more and more rare. I was always taught the rule "leave it as you find it", even going to the extent on wilderness hiking hunting trips to erase all sign of your campfire, scatter twigs branches, don't cut obvious trees all so that someone else coming along can't tell you've been there. That's not too much to ask and as cute as you think your creation please understand those coming after you only want to see the beauty of untouched nature.

You know what, I like my nature unspoilt too. But stacked rocks are way way down on the list of man's offenses against nature, and are not in fact harmful or have ANY impact on nature.

It's an aesthetic 'offense' only, and even here there are MANY MANY greater offenses to take arms against (eg wearing a 'wife-beater', camo shorts and flip-flops in a nice restaurant).

There is also the implicit hypocrisy and privilege of the complaint - the world must be perfect and unspoilt from MY vantage point as a wealthy cruiser (despite ALL the costs that cruising imposes on the environment. Cruising can be very low impact, but it's not zero), and not a recreation space for all, or a canvas for someone else's harmless youthful impulses.

So, I guess it's worth a passing mention on CF, but to equate it with littering, or paint it as a character flaw or pathology, or pretend that your big-ass boat is lower impact/smaller aesthetic offense than a stack of rocks... c'mon. get a grip.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Compliments accepted...

Now off to a breakfast Taco here in La Paz, Mexico.

Cheers Mate

[letoile]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I gave you a link and everything. I can find nothing that says that skinks live in amongst loose stone on the beach. They like dark moist areas with live and dead vegetation. And you haven't acknowledged that the mere act of walking on said desolate shore is already too much habitat disruption... IF that was indeed their habitat.

You have not proven that stacking rocks = skink extinction. Sorry.

Your source was too general. You need to be specific to their habitat by region. I was specifically referring to the Bedrock Shield areas of Georgian Bay where rocks are a valued habitat. See refs below to drive the point home.
Species Profile (Five-lined Skink) - Species at Risk Public Registry
" Habitat....On the Canadian Shield, thin rock slabs and leaf litter are used."

Five-lined Skink | Georgian Bay Biosphere Reserve

"Threats:
In some areas, collection for the pet trade has been an issue. Skinks are vulnerable to changes in their local habitats, for example the removal of woody debris or rocks.
Conservation Actions:
In the Georgian Bay area, cover rocks (flat, relatively thin, mid sized rocks) are valuable real estate for a skink. Try to leave these types of rocks in place."
http://files.ontario.ca/environment-...rod_066853.pdf
From page 4...The Common Five-lined Skink makes use of very
different habitats in the two Ontario populations.
From page 5...Habitat...Southern Shield population
The Common Five-lined Skink is largely limited to the southern edge of the Canadian
Shield. Within this area, Common Five-lined Skinks are generally restricted to rocky
outcrops in an area of mixed coniferous or deciduous forest (Howes and Lougheed
2004). The presence of loose cover rocks on the exposed bedrock was the most
important variable in predicting the presence of Common Five-lined Skinks (Howes and
Lougheed 2004).
...Southern Shield population
Nest sites are typically under rocks on top of a thin layer of soil or moss and lichen
(Seburn and Seburn 1989, Wick 2004). Nests were found under rocks that averaged
39.3 ± 3.1 cm long and 15.6 ± 1.0 cm thick at one site in Ontario (Wick 2004).
https://www.ontario.ca/document/five...outhern-shield

"...the southern Shield population is generally found on rocky outcrops in mixed coniferous and deciduous forest; areas with loose rocks on top of exposed bedrock are especially preferred as they provide cover and warmth."

I hope this makes it clear.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by letoile

Your source was too general. You need to be specific to their habitat by region. I was specifically referring to the Bedrock Shield areas of Georgian Bay where rocks are a valued habitat. See refs below to drive the point home.
Species Profile (Five-lined Skink) - Species at Risk Public Registry
" Habitat....On the Canadian Shield, thin rock slabs and leaf litter are used."
...

I hope this makes it clear.

It has certainly helped, thank you.

This doesn't relate to Desolation Sound (BC), or rocks on most shorelines, but if you are referring just to people stacking rocks in known skink habitat... well yes that's bad. No question.

I imagine that the popular bays and glaciated granite islands in Georgian Bay that get regular human visitation are never going to be ideal habitat for much of anything besides mosquitos.

[buzzstar]

While I do find many reptiles interesting and worth protecting, I am having difficulty with understanding any connection between rock stacking (for any or no purpose) and the further endangerment of the skink populace in the area. Are the rocks so rare in their habitat that a few, or even many, shore side piles will endanger the skinks and destroy the natural (what a word) beauty of the entire area. I've not been to Georgian Bay, and do not know the rock census or distribution, but since it sounds (I've not gone to Google or Wikipedia) glacial in its creation, or at least in its current situation, it is also my thought that flat smooth rocks would be common. If worse comes to worse, perhaps a few could be imported there from Flat Rock, Michigan, USA. Have we been trolled once again? Are there skinks related to the venomous swimming skinks of southeast Asia?

[Exile]

Ummm . . . errrr . . . ahhhh . . . not to "offend" anyone of course BUT . . . what's a "skink." Must be a midwestern thing . . . .

[SV THIRD DAY]

They look like a cat, but are black with a white stripe on the dorsal side. I don't usually bother them so they don't spray me.

[buzzstar]

Exile asked, "Ummm . . . errrr . . . ahhhh . . . not to "offend" anyone of course BUT . . . what's a 'skink.'"

For most of us, a sink is a lizard. Skinks are lizards, but not all lizards are skinks. To my mind the differences are essentially technical, although indeed there are many skinks in the lizard family. BTW, The sinks currently under discussion tend to the north and east, almost entirely in Canada.

One thing i have noticed, as described in post #127, sea skinks are not at all uncommon on this forum. Generally, they (the sea skinks) are harmless and do not throw rocks, although they can lose [sight of] the tale.

More confusion has been added by the wholesale transport of rocks, and maybe skinks too from Georgian Bay to Desolation Sound, or perhaps it was the other way around, in part because it is not just rocks that get piled high.

[Exile]

Gee fellas, thanks so much for clearing that up for me . . . .

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by Exile

Gee fellas, thanks so much for clearing that up for me . . . .

What part of lizard was difficult? A direct visit to Wikipeadia or elsewhere via Google could have saved many, many endangered electrons.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

What part of lizard was difficult? A direct visit to Wikipeadia or elsewhere via Google could have saved many, many endangered electrons.

As usual when it comes to these complex moral, environmental, pseudo-scientific, and ever-so-important social issues of the day, Third Day already cleared it up for me. I'll just have to remember to avoid getting sprayed when I'm out stacking rocks.

[Peregrine1983]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

They look like a cat, but are black with a white stripe on the dorsal side. I don't usually bother them so they don't spray me.

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by Peregrine1983

I agree. But enough sniping, or is it snipping? And for the less informed we had futile snipe hunts, despite their actual existence in places far, far away. Few hunted skinks because of the possibility of over spray and loss of tails, which caused problems with the EPA.

[Lunita]

Oh my! I have thrown a rock into the hornets nest!
I just went back to review my original post as perhaps I had questioned the intentions of the Inuit or the ancient Egyptians or perhaps those erecting trail markers or even the builders of old European stone houses (!).
Nope.
I realize that coastal British Columbia has been logged and mined and hardly is an untouched wilderness, but possibly as close a you can get to it these days.
My thoughts were that people like to leave their little modifications for others to see. I would prefer they did not, but it's not my wilderness. I just don't understand the need. Not the need to create or the need to have fun or to let their kids play with rocks, but the need to leave behind a "John was here".
Stack some rocks, go nuts, enjoy the balancing and piling, and then push it over before you leave and return to your fibreglass boat ( probably a lot like my boat). Don't we all throw a few bits of beach trash in the dinghy to put in our garbage bag when we are exploring that beach anyway? It's just a bit of consideration and thinking about the next guy.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Lunita

Oh my! I have thrown a rock into the hornets nest!
I just went back to review my original post as perhaps I had questioned the intentions of the Inuit or the ancient Egyptians or perhaps those erecting trail markers or even the builders of old European stone houses (!).
Nope.
I realize that coastal British Columbia has been logged and mined and hardly is an untouched wilderness, but possibly as close a you can get to it these days.
My thoughts were that people like to leave their little modifications for others to see. I would prefer they did not, but it's not my wilderness. I just don't understand the need. Not the need to create or the need to have fun or to let their kids play with rocks, but the need to leave behind a "John was here".
Stack some rocks, go nuts, enjoy the balancing and piling, and then push it over before you leave and return to your fibreglass boat ( probably a lot like my boat). Don't we all throw a few bits of beach trash in the dinghy to put in our garbage bag when we are exploring that beach anyway? It's just a bit of consideration and thinking about the next guy.

Oh brother..... here we go again.