Jolly Roger, Pirates and Political Correctness

[Star Fire]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Or, perhaps, Californian, or Coloradan.
“The Fateful Numbers 3-7-77: A Re-Examination” ~ by Rex C. Myers
Montana The Magazine of Western History, Vol. 24, No. 4 (Autumn, 1974), pp. 67-70 (4 pages)
Published By: Montana Historical Society
➥ https://www.jstor.org/stable/4517928

Back in the days of the Montana gold rush, the local stagecoach robbery gang got their leader, Henry Plumber, elected as the sherif. After a while, with robbers not ever getting punished, the towns people formed a posee of vigilantes and they would mark “3-7-77” on the doors of the cabins the Henry Plunber gang members lived in. That mark meant, leave town or we will kill you. The Vigilantes became the basis for the first state police in Montana. The state troopers cars still bear the numbers 3-7-77, so this day.

The true meaning of those numbers remains a mystery but, some believe they were the dimensions of a grave. 3’ wide by 7’ long by 77” deep.

[Cheyne]

USCG didn't require our Home Port to be where the boat is registered. Our boat is owned by a Deleware LLC that has a mailing address in Deleware and Virginia. Our Home Port is Iowa City, IA. Only time they said anything was when we were boarded. They didn't check anything on our boat. Just wanted to talk Iowa Hawkeye football since two members on the boat were from Iowa.

Cheyne

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Star Fire

Actually, the USCG requires the port of call to be the same as the place the vessel is registered.

My understanding is that the USCG permits any home port to be chosen from among a fairly inclusive list of valid place names in the United States. Perhaps things have changed recently.\

There are some interactions with state law to be aware of. Some states will consider a home port to be the intended primary place of use, which can trigger tax consequences.

As soon as I get all my documentation paperwork back, I get to put Bozeman, Montana on the transom. That’s really cool, to me. I believe, that puts me under Montana law and I’ll still be a Montana resident. I’m never giving up my 406 area code!

I think you'll find that your vessel will remain under the jurisdiction of whatever state it's actually in. State jurisdiction over coastal waters extends out 3 miles in most cases, with a few exceptions where it extends farther.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Star Fire

Actually, the USCG requires the port of call to be the same as the place the vessel is registered. As soon as I get all my documentation paperwork back, I get to put Bozeman, Montana on the transom. That’s really cool, to me. I believe, that puts me under Montana law and I’ll still be a Montana resident. I’m never giving up my 406 area code!

Well now that we have just celebrated St. Patty's Day, next on the celebration calendar is 406 Country Day.

On occassion, since I still have a land phone line, when asked what my phone number is I will state the last four digits. Then if I am speaking with someone from not in the city / township, I will recall that I have to state the seven or ten digits, or eleven digits. Since, if one knew what town a person lived in then one new the prefix number and only needed to know the final four extension numbers. The country, USA = 1; the Last Best Place [Montana] = 406; the city / town being the prefix [3 digits] and the final four your local extension line. So for my primary residence, I will just state 8159. Anyone from out of state / or out of country, does not get it when I just rattle off the last four and expect them to fill in the rest.

My secondary residence in Dillon, MT is one of the original homes [1895] built by a sister of the territorial governor whose mansion is just a block further down the road. It had in the phone directory the line extension of 7. Simply, seven. City Hall was One. The phone directory we found when we moved in has 12 listings, all the locally famous families.

Bozeman is a fine city and growing very rapidly. My daughter attended MSU.

Go Cats!

Floating and fishing the Madison, the Gallatin, or the Jefferson / Beaverhead, now that is a grand way to spend a day.

As to USCG documentation, the home port designation must be a place that is listed in U.S. Department of Commerce's Federal Information Processing Standards Publication 55DC. That published document is hard to come by. I once found an online database of the extensive listing of places, many tens of thousands of places.

US Code of Federal Regulations

§ 67.119 Hailing port designation.

(a) Upon application for any Certificate of Documentation in accordance with subpart K of this part, the owner of a vessel must designate a hailing port to be marked upon the vessel.

(b) The hailing port must be a place in the United States included in the U.S. Department of Commerce's Federal Information Processing Standards Publication 55DC.

(c) The hailing port must include the State, territory, or possession in which it is located.

(d) The Director, National Vessel Documentation Center has final authority to settle disputes as to the propriety of the hailing port designated.

(e) Until such time as the vessel owner elects to designate a new hailing port, the provisions of paragraph (c) of this section do not apply to vessels which were issued a Certificate of Documentation before July 1, 1982.

The Director has final authority of the propriety of a place. The publication includes populated places, all authoritative geographical named places [mountain passes, valleys, coulees, creeks, swamps, lakes, ponds, beaches, basically, if it has been named the place is listed, even "No Name Lake" is included many times as it turns out that is a rather common name.]; many facilities [schools / colleges / universities, hospitals, shopping centers, sports complexes, post offices, military bases, airports, court houses, cemeteries, prisons, [yes including Alcatraz and Ricker's], etc.].
If "a place" is locally known by a name designation one will likely find it listed in the vast publication because that is the purpose of the publication [an official list of locations]. Now that does not mean that the USCG will officially accept such choice, but what the heck one can be creative in trying, all that can happen is they opt to deny such designation of the home port. The vessel itself does not need to have ever been there, wherever that "there" is. Death Valley by way of example, or to have water into which one can splash a boat.


In the USA, the vessel's "home port place" can be distinct and separate from the residency of the owner(s) and from its actual place of location of the vessel. Your choice. Many USA flagged vessel's have never been in the waters of the USA.

Granted a vessel may need to be registered with a specific USA State / Territory, if the State becomes its "principal place of use" which generally is defined as where it will be used / stored most of the time during a year; also a State registration may become required if a State is deemed to become its principal place of use simply by having become located within the territory of the State, typically if 90 consecutive days have spanned. This means a vessel may need to change its State of registration [replace numbers], if it is transported to a new State for the statutory designated period of time. A State registration becomes invalid if and when a State no longer is the vessel's State of principal use. Conceivably, one may need to reregister as many as four times per year if one changes the State of principal use every three months, e.g., Coastal Cruising, or I suppose following the Lewis and Clark route, upstream with a paddle.

50 States, 50 sets of regulations. Recognizing: The United States of America ARE; not the United States of America IS.

Being a Bozeman, you likely will affiliate with and recognize the images below. The ice has almost completely melted. Robins arrived over the weekend which means Spring is nearer. The mountains remain well frosted.

Will likely be purchasing a new ocean boat this year, debating where [somewhere warm]. Hoping to take one of our trailerable "lake boats" on a spectacular alpine cruise this summer starting at Jackson Lake of the Grand Tetons, then up to Yellowstone Lake in the National Park and completing at Flathead Lake, Montana. A week on each would be time well spent in remoteness.

Bon voyages.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by Star Fire

Actually, the USCG requires the port of call to be the same as the place the vessel is registered...

Can you cite a reference for this requirement? I've looked, and never found one. I (and many others in my area) use our home town, not where the boat is berthed or primarily used.

It does have to "be a place in the United States included in the U.S. Department of Commerce's Federal Information Processing Standards Publication 55DC." That's all I can find. Note that a lot of places in that publication are land-locked.

(See 46CFR, Chapter I, Subchapter G, Part-67, § 67.119, Hailing port designation.)

[Montanan]

3-7-77, the Vigilante Code is displayed on the Montana Highway Patrol badges and logo. The vigilantes being the first law enforcement.

[Montanan]

I believe the list can be located as:

Place names within the United States and its dependent areas are available in the Geographic Names Information System (GNIS) and are the responsibility of the Domestic Names Committee (DNC) of the U.S. Board on Geographic Names (BGN).

https://www.usgs.gov/us-board-on-geo...domestic-names

[Jammer]

That's a different list. 55DC was just populated places. The superseding updated versions also have other stuff in them but that doesn't change the rules. You can't list "No Name Lake" as your hailing port because it isn't on the list of populated places.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by Jammer

That's a different list. 55DC was just populated places. The superseding updated versions also have other stuff in them but that doesn't change the rules. You can't list "No Name Lake" as your hailing port because it isn't on the list of populated places.

OK, I'll bite. In government documents, usually when there's a reference to another document, and that second document is superseded, the new version is the one which governs. Interesting rabbit hole. I guess we'd need to go back to the definition each agency uses for "superseded."

By my reckoning, I could use "No Name Lake" since there are 9 of them returned when I search the list. I'm having trouble finding a copy of the superseded 55DC, so if that does indeed still govern, I might be wrong.

[motion30]

Originally Posted by Dick Pluta

I guess the Gasparilla Festival in Tampa is a silly, immature, childish indulgence. Unlike modern criminal piracy, Caribbean piracy is now a historical artifact and is no sillier than Halloween or Guy Faulkes day. I hope no one takes offence to the carved pumpkin on my porch. if you do, it's a big ocean. Look the other way. There's enough real bad behavior in the world to take offence to. Why don't you concentrate on that instead of complaining about a lousy flag.

Dick PLuta
AEGEA

Unless you do research and see that the original Pirates were not good guys ,they were rapist, murderers and thieves. Actually I don't really care what flag you fly but it says more about you than it does about anyone else

[GordMay]

Q: Why do vigilante parties suck?
A: Because, just ice is served.

[Star Fire]

There’s a lot to unpack here. USCG documentation is valid in all 50 states and does not require one to reregister in every state. With a state registered only vessel, you can put what ever you want on the transom, as long as the bow numbers are valid. With a documented vessel, no bow numbers are required. The the vessel name and port of call become the legal identifying marks, along with the documentation number must be affixed to a structural part of the hull in a way that will leave a trace if removed. To be eligible for documentation it must first be legally titled and registered in a state. That place becomes the port of call. Since I’m respgistered and titled in Bozeman, MT, that the only port of call that I can have. I say “get to” because that’s what I really want. But it’s really a “have to.”

Different states have different registration requirements and different time periods a vessel can remain in that state without that state’s registration. The ones I do know: Montana doesn’t care. You’ll never get hassled about it. Idaho is 60 days, Maryland is 180 days, Texas is zero days. A documented vessel is an internationally recognized registration.

Since I’m a legal Montana resident still, I am eligable to have her titled in Montana. Montana registration is one and done! You pay a one time fee and the registration is permanent. Other states require anual registration fees. So, of course I had her titled in Montana. What I do have to do is get out of Maryland, soon (six months after the registration date).

If I any place was allowed, I would suspect half the vessels in the world would list “The Port of Indecision” has their hailing port.

Now, along the lines of my jolly Rodger, it’s actually a PlebMiner logo, which is, a group of people who are mining bitcoin. So in the effect that we’re degerates whose sole goal is to bring about the end of central banking, I think using it as my jolly Rodger is quite apt. As the world changes and evolves, so too must pirates. And furthermore, the real pirates are calling themselves “chandlers” these days. The largest of which, is a publicly traded company on the stock market, $WMAR (West Marine).

As far a pirates being bad people, I beg to differ. There is an honestly and accountability that can only be found amongst men who do not hide behind the doctrine of the laws of man. Some call that degenerate. I call it honorable. A pirate captain lead by the grace of the crew, not by the treat of force. Too much discontent of the crew would lead to a mutiny. In fact, I could argue that pirate ships were the truest form of democracy the world has ever seen. But I digress. if you want to see that side of me, follow me @Sarah_nakamoto on twitter(X).

I am proud to be a PlebMiner, even though mining is not feasible on a sailboat. And I’ll fly the flag with pride. If it looks like a jolly Rodger, fine. If you see it as something else, that’s fine too. What I won’t do is rape and plunder. The only think I will kill is a few crab cakes and sushi rolls. And maybe some beers and rum drinks.

The true glory of the pirate was not what they did, but who they are. They were men who could not be controlled by a ruling caste and were willing to die for what they believed in. I’d rather die for a cause than life for nothing. If that makes me a pirate, so be it.

I’ll be back when I find the vessel documentation port of call requirements.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Star Fire

To be eligible for documentation it must first be legally titled and registered in a state. That place becomes the port of call. Since I’m respgistered and titled in Bozeman, MT, that the only port of call that I can have.

I don't believe that's true. In my experience there are many boats that don't fit that pattern. My boat is documented and has never been titled in any state. I changed the port of call when I purchased it to a state where it never has been and never will be titled or registered.

Different states have different registration requirements and different time periods a vessel can remain in that state without that state’s registration. The ones I do know: Montana doesn’t care. You’ll never get hassled about it. Idaho is 60 days, Maryland is 180 days, Texas is zero days.

Texas is 90 days, see: https://tpwd.texas.gov/faq/fishboat/..._titles/#faq13


There is a USCG model policy that all states have been essentially mandated to follow that includes recognizing out-of-state registrations for a minimum period of time. I believe the minimum is 90 days.

As far a pirates being bad people, I beg to differ. There is an honestly and accountability that can only be found amongst men who do not hide behind the doctrine of the laws of man.

That's the Disney version. Actual history was remarkably different. I would suggest Peter Lehr's "Pirates: A New History, from Vikings to Somali Raiders" as a good, well-sourced survey for those new to the topic looking to broaden their understanding.

[Jim Cate]

As far a pirates being bad people, I beg to differ. There is an honestly and accountability that can only be found amongst men who do not hide behind the doctrine of the laws of man. Some call that degenerate. I call it honorable.

If you actually do go cruising I hope that you meet up with your heros. I suspect that your attitude might change should you do so. Most folks who have had encounters with modern pirates have found it an unpleasant, expensive and sometimes deadly, experience. None of the reports I have read mentioned "honor" amongst the attributes of their captors/robbers/sinkers.

Jim

[Montanan]

As to pirates, well my two favorites are from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and from the high school of the town of my principal residence, Polson, MT:

Roberto Enrique Clemente Walker being a hero and an incredible athlete.