Is This Really What An Inexperienced Skipper Gets?

[petermjdavies]

One more thing - chartering in an area like Croatia has its own challenges that are quite different from the solent. You never have to moor stern to parallel to a dock, having picked up a forward line from a buoy in the Solent. Its also hard to find fore and aft posts to moor up to in the Solent. There used to be some in Yarmouth harbour but I don't remember seeing them recently.

So the practice you might get at home may not be as helpful as you think. The madness of mooring in a crowded Croatian harbour is different from the solent, albeit in the solent you have to be more careful about tides.

So I am not surprised that you found a week skippering in Croatia stressful as well as, I hope, beautiful and enjoyable.

[waterman46]

Good advice here already but I want to add another vote for crewing on race boats. It is free and you will quickly learn from experienced skippers and crew. Take the money you spend on charters and buy a small boat, whatever you can afford, practice docking and anchoring and sail, sail, sail and have fun.

Sorry you have had some insults. I am sure each of us has had our share of same but get a thick skin and ignore the inconsiderate and stupid comments. Know that most of us are quite willing to help out when possible.

[surf_km55]

Originally Posted by jmschmidt

.....
My advice; race, race, race.....reading those 55 books, can't hurt, either.

I raced other people's boats for 5 years taking that exact advice and disagree wholeheartedly, unless you only want to get good @ hoisting/dousing sails & sail trimming...which I did. In order to get helm time, REAL helm time, you need: a generous boat-owning friend who doesn't like to steer, to take classes, charter a lot, or get your own boat.



The book part? Agree wholeheartedly that reading builds a solid foundation on which real-world experience may grow & flourish.

[lo2jones]

There have been cases in emergencies on race boats where experienced crew didn’t know how to drive or steer for a crew overboard. Learning on a race boat is not for the beginner. YOu have to have a fair amount of experience to judge what is good and bad or understand what’s happening.

[jmschmidt]

Someone just responded with some BS. He/she stated that racing is not the way to learn how to handle a boat because in an emergency only the skipper might know how to handle the boat.

In nearly fifty years I have never been racing, as crew and skipper, where everyone didn't get a chance at the helm. For new people it may only be while motoring out to the start line or back from the finish line, but if you watch, listen, learn and show initiative the skipper may soon put you the helm with a spinnaker up in 25K of wind.

[Pete17C]

Originally Posted by bmonteiro

Thank you for all the good advice and pleasant words. I think I was hoping for such a response when I first post and I certainly feel more assured about getting out there.

The true is that so far in my personal experience I only found helpful cruisers/boaters on my few days out sailing, I possibly gave too much importance to some unfortunate comments that I found here, which most definetely do not at all represent what the cruising community is about.

I am really keen to learn and be as better prepare to handle the boat and crew as I possibly can. I take a lot of time to read my subscription of the Yachting Monthy magazine, I do online courses, been going to boat shows, etc. trying to learn as much as possible to put to use when I am out there.

Every single minute of my charter time I was focused on what was happening, focused on preparation, how to take and moor the boat at the next destination, it was indeed very tiring for me and I couldn't stop being worried until I had the boat moored safely at the end of each charter. I am sure that with time this will get much better and I will be able to relax and appreciate the sailing a bit more.

Again, thanks everyone for the kind feedback!

Sailing is usually hours of peacefully, relaxingly, becoming one with the boat, the wind and the water, interspersed with moments of sheer panic, for even the most experienced.

You've shown your willingness to learn how to reduce the panic moments to 'manageable chaos' which is really all any of us can aspire to do.

But never forget to enjoy the sailing, you're going to be 'on edge' in and out of the dock/anchorage anyway. Enjoy the ride!

[surf_km55]

Originally Posted by jmschmidt

.....In nearly fifty years I have never been racing, as crew and skipper, where everyone didn't get a chance at the helm.....

That sounds wonderful, but a "chance at the helm?" A chance at the helm does not equate to meaningful helm-time, which is prerequisite to losing the "inexperienced skipper" moniker.

In 5 years of racing on about 1/2 dozen different boats, yeah, the crew got to helm, but not during any meaningful maneuvers...just when it was "safe." Not a single owner allowed crew to helm while disembarking or pulling into the slip, ever. Again, meaningful helm-time ? I got more meaningful helm time in 2 days of ASA101.

[Pete17C]

Originally Posted by surf_km55

I raced other people's boats for 5 years taking that exact advice and disagree wholeheartedly, unless you only want to get good @ hoisting/dousing sails & sail trimming...which I did. In order to get helm time, REAL helm time, you need: a generous boat-owning friend who doesn't like to steer, to take classes, charter a lot, or get your own boat.



The book part? Agree wholeheartedly that reading builds a solid foundation on which real-world experience may grow & flourish.

Given the choice of docking someone else boat with them on it, I'll pass. I don't like when I ding my boat, I would really hate to ding yours (or worse), especially with you watching.

Out on the water, sure, I'll take the helm for a while. But that doesn't really translate into knowing how to handle the boat in/out of the dock/mooring, which for most of us is the most stressful part of sailing.

[Briggers]

Originally Posted by bmonteiro

Hello!

I am now on my last preparations for our week long holiday sailing in Croatia and been reading about the differences on mooring, etc.
B.Monteiro

I have had a boat moored in Croatia since 2007, it’s a lovely place to sail but during the summer months its really crowded with charter boats. Because of this space in marina’s can be scarce. A way round this is to drop the hook in one of the many secluded bays and pull into your chosen marina mid to late morning after they have all left.
Most of the moorings are stern too and because they tend to get as many in as they can, it can be a bit of a squeeze. Make sure you know how the boat behaves astern, otherwise you can have some embarrassing moments.
A couple of places to go ashore:
Korcula, a beautiful island midway between Dubrovnik and Split (my boat is in Lumbarda). The old town in the town of Korcula is a must see.
Dubrovnik, a World Heritage Site and for good reason.
Split, you can drop the hook right in the bay (at least you could a few years ago)
Trogir, this is the closest town to Split Airport. You can moor up right in the centre of town, lots of good restaurants here and picturesque.
Hvar, very touristy and can be crowded. If it is, anchor in the islands opposite (watch for the currents there) you can then run ashore in the dinghy. It’s worth a look.
Have fun, you can do this in Korcula. There’s an elevated bistro just above the ACI Marina, sit there with a cool Karlavasco and watch some of the charter boats trying too moor up.
Good luck and don’t worry about the others..
BTW, a week in Croatia ain’t enough..

[David1033]

"BTW, a week in Croatia ain’t enough.. "

So true. We went to Hvar for two weeks, and THAT wasn't enough, so a year later we went back for four weeks. That was quite a few years ago, and I see on Google that the Stari Grad area of Hvar has become much busier, as has Hvar itself. If we manage to pick up the Formosa in the Northern Adriatic, we may well call in at Hvar, for old time's sake, on the way back to Portugal.

[surf_km55]

Originally Posted by Pete17C

Given the choice of docking someone else boat with them on it, I'll pass. I don't like when I ding my boat, I would really hate to ding yours (or worse), especially with you watching.

That's not an unreasonably cautious perspective, but it is a lost opportunity. I declined an offer to disembark/dock a beautiful +/-50'er not long ago and I regret it now. It would have been no different than the 44' I docked for the owner who was too afraid to do it himself. Of course, no one should have problems with smaller & not-so-pretty boats, LOL.

Out on the water, sure, I'll take the helm for a while. But that doesn't really translate into knowing how to handle the boat in/out of the dock/mooring, which for most of us is the most stressful part of sailing.

And therein lies the crux of it all. It is during the disembarking/docking/mooring/anchoring process that the inexperienced skipper will most likely invite the wrath of the less tolerant residents of the docks/mooring field/anchorage he's participating in.

[odonnellryan]

Originally Posted by surf_km55

That's not an unreasonably cautious perspective, but it is a lost opportunity. I declined an offer to disembark/dock a beautiful +/-50'er not long ago and I regret it now. It would have been no different than the 44' I docked for the owner who was too afraid to do it himself. Of course, no one should have problems with smaller & not-so-pretty boats, LOL.
And therein lies the crux of it all. It is during the disembarking/docking/mooring/anchoring process that the inexperienced skipper will most likely invite the wrath of the less tolerant residents of the docks/mooring field/anchorage he's participating in.

Agreed - I like to dock my boat, but I realized that it is also useful to teach crew how to dock as well. After a few tips I learned the hard way it isn't that hard or dangerous to crew or the boat.

Turns our my girlfriend has a natural gift for it!

[secrabtree]

Originally Posted by bmonteiro

Hello!

New skipper here, started sailing about 1 year ago in the UK (Solent). Completed the Day Skipper (RYA) and chartered as a skipper with an also inexperienced crew on two occasions. I tried to get as much miles as possible crewing for someone else but or it’s hard to find a boat that suits my weekend schedule (although I did find and clocked some good mileage) or I don’t seem to be able to get much practice on maneuvering the boat anyway as for obvious reasons that’s a job that the boat owner tends to do. Nevertheless, I was happy how I managed my so far two charter adventures, I certainly didn’t hide the fact that I lack of experience but I was careful enough and sailed and moored safely. I am now on my last preparations for our week long holiday sailing in Croatia and been reading about the differences on mooring, etc. In the process I am finding out that there are a lot of people in the boating community that seem very intolerant towards inexperienced skippers/sailors with absolute negative comments being shared online for little reason. Is this really what we are facing? Do people forget how they started? How can a jump from not sailing to be an inexperienced sailor be done? What’s exactly going on?

I still believe that most of you out there are willing to support and incentive others like me but I have to admit that I'm a bit shocked with some things that I have been reading.

All the best!
B.Monteiro

Originally Posted by svenskflicka

I have found most sailors to be very helpful. My advice would be to race as much as possible. You learn a LOT.

Both boat owners I have crewed for were incredibly patient and taught me most of everything I know about sailing big boats. Check the local yacht club racing series websites, often there will be people looking for crew. That's how I found the boat I started racing on and I met some amazing people!

Good advice above. Another suggestion for finding a crew spot is to look at the racing schedule of a local yacht club, and then on a race day walk the dock carrying a sixpak or two and ask skippers if they're willing to tke an additional crew member. When he sees the sixpaks he will probably say "yeah man". But I suggest NOT asking if he neds moe crew. I try not to take that as an insult. I have sailed from California to Hawii singlehanded, and, harder, from San Francisco to Antioch (only 35 miles) at night - singlehanded. I DO NOT NEED crew. Most times I WANT friends for a pleasant day sail, both friends I already have and soon to be friends.

[lo2jones]

See Latitude 38 article about how Larry Kline died. It was exactly this scenario. I’ve been a sailing instructor since 1989, but racing, I don’t share your experience. The owner allowing others to drive has been the exception rather than the rule. I can think of two instances out of dozens where the owner allowed crew to drive. This may be different in the performance boat racing where I have little experience.

[Briggers]

Another thing, in Croatia the wind seems to come from every point of the compass at some time during the day.
You should be able to pick up the forecast on C16 morning and evening, there a station at Dubrovnik and one at Split and probably elsewhere I suspect. Pay attention to them.
If you hear the word Bura (Pronounced bora) find shelter in a south facing bay.