Is Singlehanding >24 Hrs. Morally Wrong?

[GTom]

Simple answer: IMHO NO.

Elaborating a bit more: putting others in danger where common sense dictates there can be others swimming or in smaller/weaker boats is immoral. If you sleep mid-Atlantic and you hit a dinghy which had no radar reflectors, it's not your fault. Still, you'll get a portion of the blame at court but certainly a small portion if you had all alarms active (radar, AIS), navlights on. Modern boats are almost as well equipped with sensors as a self-driving car - what's immoral is turning them off.

Do I have to keep a 20mph speed limit on the highway watching for pedestrians? No. Do peds die on highways sometimes? Yes. Are you immoral when you follow the 50-60-etc speed limits and don't care about possible peds? ...

BTW! Everybody can hoist the two balls/two red lights when asleep. I know, it's unusual in the sailing community.

[Benz]

If it's about putting others at risk, it will be different for different people. Some folk are so stupid it's pretty much morally wrong for them to ride a bicycle. Others will be far more responsible singlehanding than the US Navy is in operating their well-manned vessels.
The danger with legislating morality in these cases (i.e., to make it illegal to singlehand, or to impose a certain age limit, etc), is that there is nowhere to stop. If X is immoral, then, Y should also be frowned on or legislated, and it starts adding up to eroding everyone's legitimate freedoms.
So it is absurd to say that singlehanding is morally wrong in itself. It may be wrong for one who is selfish and irresponsible, but not for a careful, thoughtful, competent seaman.

[conachair]

Worth breaking it down a bit, solo mid ocean with radar alarm and ais alarm in good order is completely different to asleep for hours coastal with no alarms. The latter being darwin award stupid IMHO.

Anyway, awake for a day/night/day coastal with plenty coffee really isn't a big deal for most of us.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by GTom

If you sleep mid-Atlantic and you hit a dinghy which had no radar reflectors, it's not your fault.

Lucky if you see even another ship once a week out there. Ain't no dinghy's

BTW! Everybody can hoist the two balls/two red lights when asleep. I know, it's unusual in the sailing community.

NUC isn't actually a personal choice...

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by conachair

Anyway, awake for a day/night/day coastal with plenty coffee really isn't a big deal for most of us.

Actually it's not quite that simple if you are not used to it.

I missed seeing a container ship one night coming into Hampton Roads due to light pollution. There are bridge lights, street lights, car lights, buoy and channel marker lights, boat lights, stop lights, and range marker lights which can create problems seeing the lights of boats/ships

There are so many lights that it's easy to miss one little red one on a big ship that's "hiding" behind your sails

On this occasion, the pilot made an inquiry on the radio and I was like what the hell and finally saw his little red light.........

After I crossed that shipping lane, I saw the small green light of another ship ghosting along and on closer inspection the ship itself faintly outlined

Offshore, even 10-12 miles, the lights of ships and other boats are much easier so see at a glance......

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by conachair

Lucky if you see even another ship once a week out there. Ain't no dinghy's
......

200 miles offshore from Antofagasto, Chile....... right on the nose at dusk ( hence the dodgy quality of the pic ) .... we didn't alter course before taking this photo....

I don't think they had AIS.... don't think you would pick them up on a 'big ship' guard zone on your radar...

And you are correct... if you don't keep a watch you don't see many ships....

[conachair]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Actually it's not quite that simple if you are not used to it.

I missed seeing a container ship one night coming into Hampton Roads due to light pollution. There are bridge lights, street lights, car lights, buoy and channel marker lights, boat lights, stop lights, and range marker lights which can create problems seeing the lights of boats/ships

There are so many lights that it's easy to miss one little red one on a big ship that's "hiding" behind your sails

On this occasion, the pilot made an inquiry on the radio and I was like what the hell and finally saw his little red light.........

After I crossed that shipping lane, I saw the small green light of another ship ghosting along and on closer inspection the ship itself faintly outlined

Offshore, even 10-12 miles, the lights of ships and other boats are much easier so see at a glance......

I've several AIS receivers Doesn't cover everything but gets the big boys you want to know about. So cheap these days no excuse not to have one really especially solo. Radar a must as well solo IMHO.

What you described could happen to anyone drowsy on watch in the wee small hours.

But suppose you are right, takes a little bit of practice to know the signs just before dawn etc. when your judgement can not be as good as you'd like so double check everything.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

And you are correct... if you don't keep a watch you don't see many ships....

Radar alarm / AIS sees them long before I do, solo doesn't mean never keeping a watch...
Your example would have undoubtedly been seen during the day . Even on a crewed boat seeing whatever if any lights your guy had is far from guaranteed

When the seas get up is not so good at night as you need to lower the radar gain a bit.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by conachair

Radar alarm / AIS sees them long before I do, solo doesn't mean never keeping a watch...
Your example would have undoubtedly been seen during the day . When the seas get up is not so good at night as you need to lower the radar gain a bit.

A small boat will get under your radar guard zones and many small boats don't have AIS

OP Ann wasn't talking about day/night/day passages... she was talking about serious passage making.

PS... don't try sailing offshore Peru.... small ***unlit*** boats out to 200 miles....

[thomm225]

AIS would have certainly eliminated any problem I had above with light pollution......

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais...ry:36.9/zoom:9

[danielamartindm]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

It was suggested today that singlehanding more than 24 hrs is morally wrong.

Personally, I don't see it that way, and I am aware it has been discussed at length in a number of previous threads.

I'd appreciate it if we can all be respectful and friendly in the posts...

To be very clear, I think we need to respect the singlehanders, and provide support for them just as much as we do for other cruising sailors. For the singlehander, it is the bits close to land, with its rocky outcroppings that are most dangerous.

I have written elswhere on CF about unlit boats, and they're the bane of my sailing miles. Singlehanders, not so. We entertain them on the beach and boat, and would try to avoid them when going the same direction.

Maintaining a proper lookout has worked so far for us, and I do not begrudge attentiveness to anyone out there (except those unlit boats! )

There is basis in the Colregs for suggesting that the long term singlehander cannot maintain an effective watch 24/7. No one disputes that. But is it immoral to singlehand because it may place other people at risk?

I see both sides to this, and we're really talking about passages here, right? In an ideal world, everyone would have the crew and wherewithal to maintain an adequate watch at all times; but single handing is a lifestyle choice, and a human freedom that I would never want to see internationally outlawed out of "moral" conviction. To those who so advocate, I can only say that if YOU are maintaining an adequate watch, what threat does a LIGHTED single-hander asleep at the helm on the open seas pose?

[OldManMirage]

Originally Posted by danielamartindm

I see both sides to this, and we're really talking about passages here, right? In an ideal world, everyone would have the crew and wherewithal to maintain an adequate watch at all times; but single handing is a lifestyle choice, and a human freedom that I would never want to see internationally outlawed out of "moral" conviction. To those who so advocate, I can only say that if YOU are maintaining an adequate watch, what threat does a LIGHTED single-hander asleep at the helm on the open seas pose?

That is an excellent point.

Another would be - how far would people want to take this ?

I would say there is almost certainly more risk while driving of someone having a heart attack or going into a diabetic coma due to poor health choices and crashing into me. What is their moral responsibility ?

Obviously this is an extreme example. But my point is the same. I'd prefer not to live in an Orwellian society where everything is regulated to death. Or perhaps a human induced version of "With Folded Hands" by Jack Williamson.

[daletournier]

I don't see a problem. I see activities such as jetskis travelling at crazy speeds by people with minimal skills as much more morally challenging.

How many incidents have a risen that we know about due to singlehandling? There's alot of space out there and most of us are travelling very slowly.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

... is it immoral to singlehand because it may place other people at risk?

Any case history of death or injury to others?

[boatman61]

Have been T boned by a yacht with 4 crew on board..
In my opinion crewed boats can be more dangerous than singlehanded.. very lax on watchkeeping very often the 'I thought one of you guys were keeping an eye open' excuse can be heard..
Morallity is a high ground claimed by inadequate people resentful of others....