Here's how (and why) it comes from "I don't like brokers" to "I hate brokers"

[Caribbeachbum]

This is silly.

A broker is a salesman. It's his job to do his best to justify his client's price, and all of us fully understand that fluffery and puffery are part of the package. Outright lying is not acceptable, of course, and those who do that fare poorly in the long run.

Meanwhile, "Must sell" is code for "Make me any offer," and the ask price is just there to try and pull that offer up as high as it can go.

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[chris mac]

So a broker told you about a boat. You told him the price was wrong, should be 400k.
Now you're upset when he contacted you again when the price dropped closer to what you stated!
If you aren't interested, don't negotiate!!!
Of course he contacted you back. You "showed" interest if it was a lower price.
Brokers, like everyone else are trying to do their job. Some are good, some are bad. If you don't want to use one then don't. Life is quite simple like that.
By the way. I do use a car dealer to buy my vehicles. I average 50,000 to 60,000 km per year, and I have not needed to own "dozens" of vehicles. So maybe there is some value in using one.

[iliohale]

Like all things in life, there is a range between extremes of good and bad. I have had both experiences with brokers in buying and selling 5 boats. I am now working with several brokers/dealers as I am searching for my next purchase. I am working with a few really good people that I fully trust to have my back.

Gary

[yalla]

Originally Posted by Caribbeachbum

This is silly.

A broker is a salesman. It's his job to do his best to justify his client's price, and all of us fully understand that fluffery and puffery are part of the package. Outright lying is not acceptable, of course, and those who do that fare poorly in the long run.

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That is silly. "fluffery and puffery" are lying, resorting to relativism doesn't change that fact. It is also the brokers' job to talk sense to a client, and maybe drop unrealistic clients instead of swinging for the fences and making me justifiably think that this broker is just a greedy middleman - like most of them.

Yes, most of them. Sellers brokers are in it for the commission. that's it, that's all. The rare good ones will not be greedy. You can always do better than a broker if you are willing to do the work, so the only thing they maybe provide is convenience.

Of course these middlemen do not exist in a vacuum - it takes an equal amount of ignorance and laziness on the part of sellers/buyers to match the greed displayed by brokers. If all sellers/buyers were clued in and conscientious, there really would be no room for greedy middlemen and honest brokers would be the rule, not the exception as it seems today.

[RSB333]

My broker is great! Helped me and my wife sell our old boat and buy the right boat for our retirement. Good advice, Helpful in negotiations and financing, etc. You just have to find the right broker!

[yalla]

Funny all these folks piling on the OP here for complaining about a greedy broker... all with the same advice "just ignore it bla bla bla"...

How about you all take your own advice and just ignore those of us who complain about greedy brokers?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

On what basis are you assuming the broker has minimum education? I've met plenty of people in the oilpatch with masters or higher degrees doing grunt work.....because the pay is good and they like the change in scenery.

Don't you need a Masters in Boatology to understand what a real Bluewater cruiser needs? Perhaps with a minor in finance.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by CSY Man

The broker does not set the price, the owner does.
If you get unwanted emails or calls from brokers, just block the calls and spam-can the emails.
Never had a problem with brokers, they work hard to make a living.
Rotten apples in every business, ignore the bad ones and have a beer with the good ones.

^^^This, in spades. Just because a broker has made a poor life decision because he/she didn't see the demographic wave of the boomers swallowing the anchor rapidly approaching, meaning 90% of their day is spent consoling aging owners as to why they'll get, at best, 40% of what they paid in most cases, doesn't make them bad people. Well, not all of them.

I find it significant that even the destruction of hundreds of charter boats last October in the wake of Caribbean hurricanes seems to have affected the used boat market not at all. It's affected the boat insurance market quite a bit. There are too few buyers, even potentially, to support what prices used to be. Why this is a surprise is unclear to me. Now, go invest in assisted living facilities for the aged. You're welcome.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

Guys, I DO know how to block unwanted e-mails, thanks for suggestion.
My message is this - AVOID brokers, dealers, realtors as much as possible! Don't be lazy, learn things yourself! That's your laziness and fears they making huge money on!
That's simply ridiculous when man with minimum education tells me that he's market expert (for example). Rip-off expert - I would believe so.

You can be correct and also indifferent. We just sold our house. I worked in concert with the realtor to show the place to ONLY developers, renovators, investment property buyers, and people who already owned houses in the area: in other words, people who saw the place in context, didn't care that the paint was old and the floors needed sanding and that some of the improvements were visible through holes cut in the ceiling.

We avoided a general listing. We showed it about a dozen times over five months. No "fluffing", no $25K "staging" or "white boxing": just a sign out front with the "Exclusive" label on it.

We named a fair price. We got that fair price. We paid a fraction of the usual commission. The tactic and the price was based on my extensive research of the 20 nearby houses that had changed hands in the last 36 months.

I mention this because houses and boats sell according to similar agent/broker models, but those models are variable. If you don't like the game, change the rules. If you don't like the game with changed rules, don't play the game. I see non-garbage boats on Kijiji, for god's sake...if you're not paying a broker's cut, you can keep a surveyor on speed dial. Apart from the price used boats command, selling and buying one outside of the former paradigm. I can't blame a hungry and probably depressed broker for trolling any name they have. Neither should you. You may want to sell your boat someday.

I had my first boat with a broker for 18 months. We showed it about 25 times. Not a single offer. A guy in my club offered me half of what I'd listed it for, no survey, all cash. I see my good old boat sailing off the mooring regularly. I have no regrets, save I'll never get those 25 showings' worth of time back.

[jmcaleer]

I must say, I am in complete agreement with your sentiments and while I haven’t read the entire thread at least one of the posts here deals with real estate agents. With apologies to a dear family friend who is a real estate agent, my sentiment is that most, although not all, real estate agents and boat brokers are probably cut from the same slimy cloth as used car salesmen and the shyster financial “pros” that melted down the world economy a few years back.

[Hoodsail]

Sold 2 sailboats without a broker...what a pain; available at all hours, weekends, waiting at the harbor and the person doesn't show, waiting at the boat yard and the caller doesn't show, taking potential buyers out for a sail, showing the boat to someone multiple times, all resulting in months of frustration and this is for a 16 ft day sailer and a 27 ft Catalina. Could have bought them both for < $7,000..Would have never seen my current boat without the help of a broker who worked with me for months, showing me a number of boats that were exactly what I was looking for, until I saw my Bristol. He was "my broker", seller had his. My broker helped with negotiations & must-do fixes prior to sale, contract, and hounded seller's broker, who didn't appear to be very motivated...So would use him again and recommend highly. thnks

[Davidhoy]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

It's not attractive anymore, this fact DOES have huge impact on price!

Do you mean aesthetically attractive, or financially? If we're talking aesthetics here, remember that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'm not a big fan of Lagoons in general, but this model is a darn sight better than their current models, which fall into the category of "condomarans".

I was at the Miami Boat Show last month, and virtually all the cats had massive freeboard, with then several additional decks above that. Kinda like layers on a ridiculously tall wedding cake! I would not even consider taking one of these newer boats offshore, they are simply not seaworthy in my opinion. It used to be that the South African cats had more pleasing and safer, seaworthy lines (OK, I may be a little biased being from there originally), but now they too are being driven in the wrong direction by charter companies just out to make a buck on otherwise useless boats. I'd take that older L570 over any of the newer boats any day of the week!

Otherwise, I generally agree with your post, it can be frustrating dealing with people just out to sell a boat, regardless of your own needs and desires. But that's nothing new, or unique to boat brokers...

-David

[achil]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

Really?? I just don't know how system existed before these guys...by mistake, I guess.
I don't know how I still alive, never used car dealer to buy a car in my life (and had few dozens of cars), how I bought house without buyer's broker...
At some reason world didn't fell apart. I guess, that was miracle.

Ever since people started selling things there has always been a salesperson; even if that person was the same person that made the object for sale.
It would be pretty difficult to purchase a new car without going through a dealer.
If the house you bought was listed with a Realtor you screwed yourself for not using a buyer's broker, because it wouldn't have cost you anything and you may have ended up with a better deal.

[Shrew]

Unreasonable overreaction with unrealistic expectations.

[Mike OReilly]

My own experience with boat brokers is mixed, leaning to negative. Most brokers I had to deal with had limited useful knowledge about the boats they were listing. Those that responded to my queries (many did not) were polite. But most lacked the detailed information I wanted, or were willing to do much to get it. In a few cases a couple of really bad apples outright lied to me, costing me time and money.

My belief is that boat brokers are good for higher-end sales, but all too often are a negative at the lower end of the scale. The reason is obvious. There’s not much money for the broker in a sale under, say $50,000. Since most brokers operate on a 10% commission, a lower-end boat simply isn’t worth much of their effort.

As a small business owner, I fully understand this. You must match time and effort to the potential fee being received. If I over-spend in time/effort, then I quickly go out of business. So at the low end, most brokers simply can’t afford to spend the time I, as the potential buyer, wants of them.

I wish brokers would avoid involving themselves in low-end sales. But I know they get pressured to take on these boats from sellers, in part, b/c you have to be a broker to list on YachtWorld. If they’d open Yacht World to everyone, this might alleviate some of the problem.