Docking along side

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

About getting the midships line to shore: we have abandoned the idea of getting crew ashore to do this because it simply is too dangerous or even impossible to do when the wind is high and blowing you off the dock.

It's not always possible for sure. Our standing orders are that nobody steps off if they can't do it safely. If it's a no go, I bail for another approach, typically with an alternate plan (which may involve lassoing a cleat if placement allows).

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

That last point about departing stern first is a big one. Without a bow thruster it's often easier to do it that way even in fairly calm conditions (particularly on a powerboat with twins).

As far as getting onto the dock with wind blowing on vs off the dock, I've always found being blown off the dock to be easier. The bow on my boat spins off the wind pretty noticeably, so it can be tough to avoid a hard landing against the fenders if the wind is blowing you onto the dock. With the wind blowing you off, the approach angle gets steeper and it has to be done faster.

We almost always leave a face dock stern first. Partly also because our swim platform (with dinghy mounted) is about 100 miles long, and pivoting away from the dock bow first risks mushing the platform or even the dinghy into the dock.

I haven't yet perfected approaches where we're being forced onto the dock. Hard landings, not my favorite. I've even though about trying an approach stern first at a 90°angle, pivoting when the stern is at the dock... but haven't had the... er... marbles?... to try it yet. The bow thruster (we have now) has helped slow down our landings a few times, but only a little...

Originally Posted by mvweebles

That said, I find discussions that include springlines a bit misleading. I have yet to see two boats respond more than vaguely similarly with the same set and placement of springlines. What brings one boat nicely alongside, parallel with a side tie may be totally useless for another boat. Also, folks talk about using a springline to come into a dock. They never mention how you get the line to the dock in the first place - toss a grapple? What's the plan? Bottom line, in my opinion, springlines are highly unique and need to be practiced for each boat and crew. I have no idea how anyone can give anything more than abstract guidance to someone else in a forum setting (how they do it on their boat is one thing - extrapolating to someone else's boat and crew is another).

Agree, each boat is different... and the pivot point depends very much on where the midships cleat(s) actually live. For example, a further forward cleat with an aft springline will rotate the bow in perhaps sooner than expected. Our previous boat had two "midships" cleats, so we could pick and choose which pivot point to use, but now we only have one and it's a bit too far forward for my taste. Works well enough, though, given we've learned its eccentricities.

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I don't agree with your statement that this applies +/-, but I'm not sure I understand - when I read from midship to dock as short as possible, I 'hear' breastline, not a springline. Breastline is useful because it limits travel of bow and stern (but is too short to be used for longer term).

Threads like these make it sound like they are used all the time - I can count on one hand the number of times I've actually witnessed a recreational boat use a springline for docking (more common for un-docking, but still rare). I suspect everyone on forums like this have read the book, digested the diagrams, and regurgiated the guidance, maybe tried it once or twice on their own boat. In my opinion, it works on paper much, much better than in practice. Springlines are useful, but the guidelines are general, hardly 'rules.'

Perhaps we should just be saying "get a line on a midships cleat first, then worry about the actual geometry" or some such.

I often see powerboaters who seem to have no clue about actually using midships lines to dock. Somebody up forward ready to throw a bow line at a dockhand, fenders maybe or maybe not deployed in advance... so I'd guess some folks on forums like this know more about the subject than 90-95% of actual (non-forum?) boaters. And knowing more about it still may or may not mean they use midships lines first.

FWIW, I can almost count on one hand the times we've docked withOUT using a midship's line first.

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

About getting the midships line to shore: we have abandoned the idea of getting crew ashore to do this because it simply is too dangerous or even impossible to do when the wind is high and blowing you off the dock.

We tie the end of the line to the midships cleat, then pull a large loop out which is large enough to throw over a dock cleat, hold this loop up with two outstretched arms while approaching the dock, then throwing the loop over the cleat on the dock and hurling the free end in and either belay it on the cleat if everything went well, or onto a winch if not and winching it in to shorten up.
.

Ditto. Or it sometimes gets easier if there's a dockhand there to get the line onto a pile or a cleat.

-Chris

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

It's not always possible for sure. Our standing orders are that nobody steps off if they can't do it safely. If it's a no go, I bail for another approach, typically with an alternate plan (which may involve lassoing a cleat if placement allows).

We typically don't put anyone on shore even if it's convenient to do so. I figure it's good practice to do it from the boat.

Also I'm single handed a fair amount anyway.

I have a good bit of practice lassoing cleats and bollards, so that's usually Plan A. In the Baltic, unfortunately, a lot of docks have those infernal rings instead of cleats, which you can't lasso.

For those, I use a metal pole with a hook and clip on the end of it -- the kind they sell for hooking on to mooring buoys for bows-to docking. You can usually get this onto a ring, although sometimes you also need a boat hook to flip the ring up.

This is all hardest, obviously, when you're being blown off. And hardest of all when you're being blown off by a strong wind AND you're single handed.

For that case, I lead a midships line back to an electric winch. Do a Captain Ron manuever to get as much sideways momentum into the dock as possible, to give me more time before being blown off, then get that line on anyway I can, jump back into the cockpit (not trivial with our beam of 16 feet), haul in as much slack as possible before the line goes taught, then spring the boat into the dock with power. My electric primaries are really powerful so sometimes I can ease the boat into the dock with them, or at least keep taking slack out as I power on and wiggle in.

[mvweebles]

One of the most reliable docking methods for twin powerboat (and to a lessor extent singles with full width transoms) is to back into a dock at an angle and get a short spring from the aft quarter cleat to the dock, then spin/power forward to swing the bow into the dock. Very controllable when wind blowing off dock. Reversing out with a large round fender at the corner to serve as fulcrum is also pretty predictable. Somehow, topic of springs always focus on midship and longer lines run either forward or aft.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

About getting the midships line to shore: we have abandoned the idea of getting crew ashore to do this because it simply is too dangerous or even impossible to do when the wind is high and blowing you off the dock.

We tie the end of the line to the midships cleat, then pull a large loop out which is large enough to throw over a dock cleat, hold this loop up with two outstretched arms while approaching the dock, then throwing the loop over the cleat on the dock and hurling the free end in and either belay it on the cleat if everything went well, or onto a winch if not and winching it in to shorten up.

Even though this sounds cowboy like, it actually never failed. The loop diameter is more than a yard/meter and easy to throw over a cleat.

When using the engine in forward gear, the stern does move a couple feet off the dock but this of course isn’t a problem at all. With a large (sailboat) rudder close behind the propeller, it is easy to correct this but even if it wouldn’t, it is easy enough to get bow and stern lines to the dock to get full control.

These are the maneuvers as done by professionals. For many sailboats they can be replaced by pushing off, pulling in etc. as the boat is light enough to allow this, but when the wind isnup high enough this doesn’t work anymore, while the professional maneuvers keep working from a large barge to a small sailboat.

That's pretty much exactly what we do, and I don't think it's "cowboy" at all.

When I bought my present boat (15 years ago), the guy at Moody who sold it to me, a young guy and fantastic sailor, gave me this advice -- "Seeing as how you've never before driven a boat bigger than 45', there is one important thing you have to take into consideration -- unlike other boats you have experience with, this one can't be moved, not even a little, by brute force of you or your crew. All you have is the prop, rudder, and if it's working [it wasn't at that time], the thruster. That's it."

That helped me a lot. And now even when driving a smaller boat I don't use any maneuvers which require the crew to push or pull the boat around with their hands like we used to do.

I'm curious about one thing, however. What do guys do who have single props and dual rudders, like many modern boats have? I can't imagine how to dock without having prop acting on the rudder.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

When I bought my present boat (15 years ago), the guy at Moody who sold it to me, a young guy and fantastic sailor, gave me this advice -- "Seeing as how you've never before driven a boat bigger than 45', there is one important thing you have to take into consideration -- unlike other boats you have experience with, this one can't be moved, not even a little, by brute force of you or your crew. All you have is the prop, rudder, and if it's working [it wasn't at that time], the thruster. That's it."

I take the same approach with our boat. By the time conditions are sporty enough that you might feel the need to muscle the boat around, it's just not going to happen. Too much weight and windage to do it without hurting yourself (if you can do it at all) once conditions aren't calm.

[Departing2017]

Helm to starboard, starboard engine forward will generally walk the vessel to port. Fine tune position as necessary with either engine in reverse. Never had the pleasure of a bow thruster. 😜

[Colin Stone]

"In on the inboard". Get bow in. Astern on outboard will swing stern in.

We use a swimming pool cleaning telescopic pole. The 1" diameter end section takes a Lazilas standard plastic boat hook, with a 3.6m extended pole total reach is over 4m.

With our single screw, a headrope eye on shore first and then foredeck bollard. I then use that as a spring to screw the hull in. The shore bollard is placed midway tween foredeck and a midships bollards. Second line eye on shore bollard, back to midships then to shore and finish up to foredeck. Essentially a "V" with open end onboard. Then just a doubled up stern rope to hold stern in.

Bow and stern thruster - that is called a rudder.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Sounds like an outboard powered boat? OP has inboard diesels.

"Splitting the gears" (i.e. one in forward and the other in reverse) when coming along a side tie often results in the boat stopping a long way from the dock.

Eventually, Rslifkin will find this thread. He gave me one of my favorite pieces of advice about twins - consider them two singles. I know it sounds obvious, but for sailors that predominate on CF, it probably makes a lot of sense. A twin engines boat is ambidextrous - but it is essentially two singles for handling purposes.

BTW - I have only heard of one twin engine boat that was not counter rotating. It was unclear whether the Taiwan builder had just used whatever transmission he had on the shelf or it had been replaced along the way. But it was really confusing to anyone who drove the boat - especially experienced drivers who rightfully expected a counter rotating engine.

Outboard-powered cats have several differences:

• There is no rudder in the propwash.
• They are not counter rotating.
• The props can be very far apart, amplifying the steering effect. In fact, they won't motor straight will one engine until moving ~ 4 knots. Too much offset.

But the same principles. You don't use the wheel when docking.

• But the same principles.

[thinwater]

Also ...


Particularly if you are singlehanded and can't get help, never be afraid to anchor out. If nothing else, it buys time for the weather to change or for you to figure something out. It's always better than forcing a bad situation.


I recall once I was assigned a certain slip in a strong side-tide. I didn't like the look of it with the talent I had on board and chose a nearby bulkhead, to the dismay of the dockmaster. I felt a little embarrassed when I saw a boat swing into the slip a few hours later. And then I walked past the boat and saw them staring at a 2-8' mass of dock rash they got from a dolphin on the way in. I felt much better about being a coward.Anchoring out would have been better that that.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Also ...

Particularly if you are singlehanded and can't get help, never be afraid to anchor out. If nothing else, it buys time for the weather to change or for you to figure something out. It's always better than forcing a bad situation.

I recall once I was assigned a certain slip in a strong side-tide. I didn't like the look of it with the talent I had on board and chose a nearby bulkhead, to the dismay of the dockmaster. I felt a little embarrassed when I saw a boat swing into the slip a few hours later. And then I walked past the boat and saw them staring at a 2-8' mass of dock rash they got from a dolphin on the way in. I felt much better about being a coward.Anchoring out would have been better that that.

Good advice.

Pilots know about the hazards of "get-home-itis", which has killed many a good airman.

Anchoring off if in doubt is always a good decision.


And if that's not possible, stand off and heave to.