Docking along side

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

If you oppose the engines - ie. port ahead, stbd astern, the bow will swing to stbd. If you add stbd rudder, the rate of turn will increase. If you used opposite rudder (ie. turn to port) you can slow the turn or stop it altogether. In some boats, you can actually crab sideways like this. It's painfully slow, but illustrates that the wash against the rudder (deflected thrust) easily overcomes the minor prop-walk effect. Personally, I use the rudder to swing the stern into the dock - the "flare" in the approach. Then outboard engine astern, then inboard engine astern. As the way comes off, I'll then stop the inboard, and go ahead on it to continue swinging the stern in. As we're almost flush with the jetty, stop both, centre the rudder and temporarily reverse the engines (ie. port ahead, stbd astern) to stop the swing.

Might be overkill - I generally do this with much larger vessels.

The approach angle and aim-point are all dependent on which way the wind is blowing, and how much room you've got, but that's another topic in itself.

Wind, etc. absolutely affects the aim point (and speed required).

Rudder can be very useful for a faster spin, etc. It's particularly helpful to get the bow up into the wind in close quarters. But in lighter winds, I rarely find it necessary. It depends on the boat though, as some show much stronger prop walk than others, and different hull shapes pivot around a different point. Hulls with the props in tunnels will often need more use of the rudder, as they tend to get less turning effect from the props.

[Lodesman]

"Pivot point" is more of a conceptual idea, than a fixed point. Of course hull shape can have an effect - in a catamaran, the pivot point is generally between the hulls and can move side to side as well as fore and aft. But for a monohull with the standard screw/rudder layout, the maxim holds true.
With shrouded props, there is zero prop-walk and slipstream is generally reduced. The main turning factors are asymmetric thrust and the deflection of thrust with the rudder(s).

[s/v Jedi]

We don’t have a bow thruster and with a 64’ waterline, controlling the bow is an issue that needs special consideration.

We use wind or current as a bow thruster when it sets towards the dock, “tacking” the bow so that it moves where we want and adjusting angle and speed to make the approach doable. With enough wind or current one can actually move sideways without going forward or backwards.

Practice moving in reverse by starting with doing figure eights around two objects (fenders in the water, mooring balls etc.) to learn the difference of a turn to port vs starboard and how the wind and the prop affect that, including putting the engine in neutral at a turn or not.

Next add the transition of forward to reverse moving and the prop walk. Learn at which angle to position the boat so that prop walk aligns the boat again while the rudder doesn’t have enough flow to steer yet.

Coming alongside a dock I find most challenging when the wind is blowing away from the dock. This really requires getting the midships line on a dock cleat fast. If the wind is high and the space limited, we sometimes need to start perpendicular with the stern to the dock, bringing first the stern line ashore, followed by a long bow line handed to shore from the stern, which is then winched in. We have a special line for this that we also use to bring to a fastening point by dinghy, like a tree ashore etc.

Edit: and the other way around, the wind can pin the bow to the dock without a bow thruster. In that case we leave a forward spring the we motor into with an extra fender at the bow. This moves the stern out and can be continued until perpendicular to the dock at which time we reverse to move away with full control of having the stern into the wind.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Coming alongside a dock I find most challenging when the wind is blowing away from the dock. This really requires getting the midships line on a dock cleat fast. If the wind is high and the space limited, we sometimes need to start perpendicular with the stern to the dock, bringing first the stern line ashore, followed by a long bow line handed to shore from the stern, which is then winched in. We have a special line for this that we also use to bring to a fastening point by dinghy, like a tree ashore etc.

Edit: and the other way around, the wind can pin the bow to the dock without a bow thruster. In that case we leave a forward spring the we motor into with an extra fender at the bow. This moves the stern out and can be continued until perpendicular to the dock at which time we reverse to move away with full control of having the stern into the wind.

That last point about departing stern first is a big one. Without a bow thruster it's often easier to do it that way even in fairly calm conditions (particularly on a powerboat with twins). Wind pinning us to a dock is one of the few times I start thinking "a bow thruster would be really nice right now..."

As far as getting onto the dock with wind blowing on vs off the dock, I've always found being blown off the dock to be easier. The bow on my boat spins off the wind pretty noticeably, so it can be tough to avoid a hard landing against the fenders if the wind is blowing you onto the dock. With the wind blowing you off, the approach angle gets steeper and it has to be done faster. But I've never had much trouble getting the boat in position and pivoting it hard enough that the stern slides up to the dock, allowing the admiral to step off with a spring line. The boat will start to blow off a bit (especially at the bow) while the spring is secured, but as long as it can be cleated quickly, then the boat gets brought right back to the dock with a little engine power. It's possible that feels more natural just because the upwind approach to a face dock was the first one I learned as a kid. And if you screw up, you're likely to just end up too far from the dock (and bail out for another try) instead of crunching the boat into the dock hard.

[mvweebles]

It's frequently easier to depart by backing out than trying to go forward. With the OPs twin onboard, sequence to depart a port-side dock would be to #1 - put starboard engine in forward for a second or two to "dip" the bow towards the dock, then #2 -put the port engine in reverse to pull the stern away from the dock. #1 is important to increase rotation before sternway is developed.

With a single, a spring line from bow to a cleat near midship (Jedi's description) will accomplish the same.

That said, I find discussions that include springlines a bit misleading. I have yet to see two boats respond more than vaguely similarly with the same set and placement of springlines. What brings one boat nicely alongside, parallel with a side tie may be totally useless for another boat. Also, folks talk about using a springline to come into a dock. They never mention how you get the line to the dock in the first place - toss a grapple? What's the plan? Bottom line, in my opinion, springlines are highly unique and need to be practiced for each boat and crew. I have no idea how anyone can give anything more than abstract guidance to someone else in a forum setting (how they do it on their boat is one thing - extrapolating to someone else's boat and crew is another).

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

It's frequently easier to depart by backing out than trying to go forward. With the OPs twin onboard, sequence to depart a port-side dock would be to #1 - put starboard engine in forward for a second or two to "dip" the bow towards the dock, then #2 -put the port engine in reverse to pull the stern away from the dock. #1 is important to increase rotation before sternway is developed.

With a single, a spring line from bow to a cleat near midship (Jedi's description) will accomplish the same.

That said, I find discussions that include springlines a bit misleading. I have yet to see two boats respond more than vaguely similarly with the same set and placement of springlines. What brings one boat nicely alongside, parallel with a side tie may be totally useless for another boat. Also, folks talk about using a springline to come into a dock. They never mention how you get the line to the dock in the first place - toss a grapple? What's the plan? Bottom line, in my opinion, springlines are highly unique and need to be practiced for each boat and crew. I have no idea how anyone can give anything more than abstract guidance in a forum setting.

For using a spring on a side tie, I often plan to approach in a way that the stern slides up to the dock well enough for the admiral to step off with the spring line. The boat won't necessarily stay there, but the step only takes a couple of seconds. Sometimes the dock layout is such that a spring line can be secured from onboard (looped around a cleat or piling) or there's someone on shore who can secure it for us. If the situation isn't obvious, we'll often do a "drive by" and confirm what we have to work with before I make the final approach.

With my boat generally a spring led aft from the midship cleats (which are really about 2/3 forward) does the trick. Place the dock-side engine in forward with close to full rudder turned away from the dock (exact amount of rudder needed depends on wind) and the boat will pull itself pretty much flat against the dock.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

For using a spring on a side tie, I often plan to approach in a way that the stern slides up to the dock well enough for the admiral to step off with the spring line. The boat won't necessarily stay there, but the step only takes a couple of seconds. Sometimes the dock layout is such that a spring line can be secured from onboard (looped around a cleat or piling) or there's someone on shore who can secure it for us. If the situation isn't obvious, we'll often do a "drive by" and confirm what we have to work with before I make the final approach.

With my boat generally a spring led aft from the midship cleats (which are really about 2/3 forward) does the trick. Place the dock-side engine in forward with close to full rudder turned away from the dock (exact amount of rudder needed depends on wind) and the boat will pull itself pretty much flat against the dock.

This is a good example - yours is an old school adt cabin motoryacht. Midship spring on a sailboat may have dramatically different results unless it can be led very far aft on the dock which is often not practical of even possible.

Just getting crew on the dock can be a challenge on an aft cabin motoryacht - they often need to do so from the swim platform and are out of site of the helmsman. For a sailboat, crew often de-boards at the shrouds which are roughly midship. If the boat is close enough so crew can get off midship, a temporary breastline often makes sense - a springline wouldn't.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

This is a good example - yours is an old school adt cabin motoryacht. Midship spring on a sailboat may have dramatically different results unless it can be led very far aft on the dock which is often not practical of even possible.

Just getting crew on the dock can be a challenge on an aft cabin motoryacht - they often need to do so from the swim platform and are out of site of the helmsman. For a sailboat, crew often de-boards at the shrouds which are roughly midship. If the boat is close enough so crew can get off midship, a temporary breastline often makes sense - a springline wouldn't.

Yup, it's a little different on every boat. If the midship cleat is truly midship (especially on a hull shape like a sailboat) I'd tend towards the breast line. For us, the cleat placement doesn't work and the stern won't stay near the dock easily, so it's better to pin the boat against the dock with a spring and power. Otherwise one of us has to toss a stern line to the dock and let the other drag the stern back in at some point. Modern sailboats that carry more beam aft tend to have the optimal step point a bit further aft, closer to the forward end of the cockpit, so that may change the game a bit. But it's harder to get a sailboat to slide sideways, so the approach and step-off will happen a bit differently. Lower decks may also give a better chance of being able to lasso a cleat on the way in and not needing to step off until the first line is secured.

As far as stepping off, we're a trunk cabin layout, so we have side decks and an aft deck behind the cabin. They're about 4 feet off the water, so very low docks can be a challenge (I did watch the admiral sit down on the side deck to hop off onto a dock that was only a few inches off the water once), but we've never had to resort to stepping off from the swim platform (which would be a pain with the dinghy hoisted). Our layout also gives me good visibility from the helm, so I can watch the admiral make her step and make sure we're positioned well for it.

Generally if we're getting blown off the dock hard, I try to adjust my approach so the boat has enough sideways momentum that we'll slide right up to the dock against the fenders, giving a solid window where we're close enough to step off before the bow starts to blow back off. We sometimes do the step from midship, but aft is often easier as I can position the approach so she steps off very close to the cleat the spring line is destined for.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

This is a good example - yours is an old school adt cabin motoryacht. Midship spring on a sailboat may have dramatically different results unless it can be led very far aft on the dock which is often not practical of even possible.

Just getting crew on the dock can be a challenge on an aft cabin motoryacht - they often need to do so from the swim platform and are out of site of the helmsman. For a sailboat, crew often de-boards at the shrouds which are roughly midship. If the boat is close enough so crew can get off midship, a temporary breastline often makes sense - a springline wouldn't.

A line tied from somewhere around midship led to the dock is going to be a spring line" as soon as it's working under any load forwards or back.


But the terminology is not important -- the main principle is getting a midships line on and tied up as short as possible. So choose a bollard or cleat near to where you want the middle of the boat to be. The shorter this line is, the more control you will have. If the angle is within 45-50 degrees of perpendicular, then it takes only a tiny bit of motor power to pin the boat stably to the dock so you can put the other lines on at your leisure.


The first line needs to be from midships because that's the only way one line brings the boat under control. If you have a bunch of crew you can do a bow and stern line simultaneously, but the midships line does the trick.



As far as I know, this applies to more or less all vessel types.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

A line tied from somewhere around midship led to the dock is going to be a spring line" as soon as it's working under any load forwards or back.


But the terminology is not important -- the main principle is getting a midships line on and tied up as short as possible. So choose a bollard or cleat near to where you want the middle of the boat to be. The shorter this line is, the more control you will have. If the angle is within 45-50 degrees of perpendicular, then it takes only a tiny bit of motor power to pin the boat stably to the dock so you can put the other lines on at your leisure.


The first line needs to be from midships because that's the only way one line brings the boat under control. If you have a bunch of crew you can do a bow and stern line simultaneously, but the midships line does the trick.



As far as I know, this applies to more or less all vessel types.

Some boats seem to respond well to a spring led aft from a stern cleat as an alternative to midship, but midship is usually a safe bet.

For us powerboaters, the angle of the spring doesn't matter too much, as idle power on one engine is typically enough regardless of spring angle and wind strength.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

A line tied from somewhere around midship led to the dock is going to be a spring line" as soon as it's working under any load forwards or back.


But the terminology is not important -- the main principle is getting a midships line on and tied up as short as possible. So choose a bollard or cleat near to where you want the middle of the boat to be. The shorter this line is, the more control you will have. If the angle is within 45-50 degrees of perpendicular, then it takes only a tiny bit of motor power to pin the boat stably to the dock so you can put the other lines on at your leisure.


The first line needs to be from midships because that's the only way one line brings the boat under control. If you have a bunch of crew you can do a bow and stern line simultaneously, but the midships line does the trick.



As far as I know, this applies to more or less all vessel types.

I don't agree with your statement that this applies +/-, but I'm not sure I understand - when I read from midship to dock as short as possible, I 'hear' breastline, not a springline. Breastline is useful because it limits travel of bow and stern (but is too short to be used for longer term). Also, if the angle from midship cleat to dock is 45-ish degrees and the line short, I've seen plenty of boats that will simply drive the bow into the dock, leaving the stern several feet off the dock.

Springline usage rules are governed by physics and not always predictable because the keel, rudder(s), and prop(s) all play a silent role - fasten a line from a boat to the dock and it will pivot. How it pivots and whether it's useful is another matter entirely. Classic case of Mike Tyson's "Everyone has a plan....until they get punched in the face." In my opinion, unlike many other aspects of boating, there may be very general guidelines (e.g. leverage and pivot points), but the rules are not transferable between boat configurations. Threads like these make it sound like they are used all the time - I can count on one hand the number of times I've actually witnessed a recreational boat use a springline for docking (more common for un-docking, but still rare). I suspect everyone on forums like this have read the book, digested the diagrams, and regurgiated the guidance, maybe tried it once or twice on their own boat. In my opinion, it works on paper much, much better than in practice. Springlines are useful, but the guidelines are general, hardly 'rules.'

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I don't agree with your statement that this applies +/-, but I'm not sure I understand - when I read from midship to dock as short as possible, I 'hear' breastline, not a springline. Breastline is useful because it limits travel of bow and stern (but is too short to be used for longer term). Also, if the angle from midship cleat to dock is 45-ish degrees and the line short, I've seen plenty of boats that will simply drive the bow into the dock, leaving the stern several feet off the dock.

Spring lines is one case where the rules are governed by physics and not always predictable because the keel, rudder(s), and prop(s) all play a silent role. Classic case of Mike Tyson's "Everyone has a plan....until they get punched in the face." In my experience (which, as a past full-time delivery skipper including a TON of close-quarter's work moving boats around boat-show docks, isn't too shabby), you can take some very rough/crude rules but they need to be practiced and adjusted. Unlike many other aspects of boating, there are general guidelines, but no rules for springlines that are transferable between boat configurations.

Well, I'm not quite sure what you're disagreeing with. FWIW, I agree with everything here.

Obviously, in doing this maneuver, you have to keep the boat parallel to the dock, and for THAT obviously different boats can be very different indeed. But it's not usually rocket science -- on a sailboat, a bit of rudder will usually do it provided your line is not exerting a lot of angular momentum on the boat, and if the line is midships and shortish, that helps. With a twin engine power boat obviously you have more tools in your bag. A bow thruster can help. Wind can obviously affect all this greatly.

What IS transferable between different boat types is simply this -- that a shortish line ashore from amidships gives you, as a simple matter of geometry, more control than any other single line can. That I DO think applies to probably 100% of vessels. That does not contradict what you say -- because "more control" doesn't mean everything is solved. You still have to figure out how to keep the boat parallel to the dock, keep from bashing one end of the boat against the dock, and here different boats may be very different, even the same model of boat with slightly different cleat placement.

There are some odd situations where a single stern line works ok -- say, if the bow of the boat is being blown onto the dock by a stiff breeze. But if you're being blown OFF, then the midships line is practically the only thing you can do.

Note also that perfect stability is not necessary for this job -- the more stable you lie, the more time you have to get other lines on, but even relative stability can be quite ok for a graceful berthing evolution. If your bow is slowly swinging in, and your rudder is not stopping it, then so long as you are relatively stable, you prioritize the stern line, and you might not even need the thruster.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Some boats seem to respond well to a spring led aft from a stern cleat as an alternative to midship, but midship is usually a safe bet.

I've seen people do that. That won't work, however, with the wind blowing you off, unless you can generate a lot of angular momentum with differential thrust from a twin screw boat. But why do it in a way which requires that?

I think the geometry of this question can be simplified --

At the middle of the boat, the line keeps the whole boat alongside net of any swing. The force from a midships line acts on both ends at the same time. Maybe not equally, so might need correction, but this is just correction. A midships line geometrically minimizes the differential force on either end of the boat.

Whereas if you are tied on at one end only, you have from limited to zero power to counteract a force moving the other end of the boat off the dock. Any force, whether it's wind or anything else. Limited power might with some boats and some conditions be enough, but why? If you can do it in a way which means little power is needed, where the only thing you have to control is swing, rather than the whole end of the boat departing the dock.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Also, if the angle from midship cleat to dock is 45-ish degrees and the line short, I've seen plenty of boats that will simply drive the bow into the dock, leaving the stern several feet off the dock.

My boat is one of these, although it's got enough rudder authority (the rudders swing to 45*) that full rudder is generally enough to pull the stern in and get it to sit flat.

[s/v Jedi]

About getting the midships line to shore: we have abandoned the idea of getting crew ashore to do this because it simply is too dangerous or even impossible to do when the wind is high and blowing you off the dock.

We tie the end of the line to the midships cleat, then pull a large loop out which is large enough to throw over a dock cleat, hold this loop up with two outstretched arms while approaching the dock, then throwing the loop over the cleat on the dock and hurling the free end in and either belay it on the cleat if everything went well, or onto a winch if not and winching it in to shorten up.

Even though this sounds cowboy like, it actually never failed. The loop diameter is more than a yard/meter and easy to throw over a cleat.

When using the engine in forward gear, the stern does move a couple feet off the dock but this of course isn’t a problem at all. With a large (sailboat) rudder close behind the propeller, it is easy to correct this but even if it wouldn’t, it is easy enough to get bow and stern lines to the dock to get full control.

These are the maneuvers as done by professionals. For many sailboats they can be replaced by pushing off, pulling in etc. as the boat is light enough to allow this, but when the wind isnup high enough this doesn’t work anymore, while the professional maneuvers keep working from a large barge to a small sailboat.