Customs check in denied entry to St Lucia

[doprin]

Hello.
I was denied entry into St Lucia because my Canadian certificate of registry was expired. I am currently working on getting a new one. The customs agent wrote on my Martinique departure document: entry denied expired boat documentation . In the mean time the question is where can I go from here? I assume I can not stay in St Lucia. Entry has been denied. I do need to make my way down to Grenada. Can I do this quietly? By the time I get to Grenada I could have my documents. Will Grenada ask for my Martinique departure document. How will they view the entry denial? Alternatively stay in St Lucia, even though denied entry, until document arrives and retry. Waiting in St Lucia is a problem for me as I need to get to Grenada in two weeks. St Lucia custom officials are not giving me any advise.

[boatpoker]

Call Transport Canada directly. If they cannot issue a new Certificate immediately, ask them to email you a "Provisional Certificate" while you get your stuff together and pay to reinstate your registry.

Don't deal with the person that answers the phone. Ask specifically to speak to a "Ships Registrar". They are a pretty helpful bunch once you get the right person. Try for Josée Potvin at 1-877-242-8770

[HeinSdL]

Not sure if Josee would be pleased with his name and number (though I presume it's the registrar help line) here in plain view....

[SailingHarmonie]

First leave St Lucia, now. You have been deported. I do not know what the consequences are if you get caught lurking after being told to leave, but I am very sure you do not want to learn them first hand.

If you can get an interim document from Canada do so NOW. This will solve your problem. If for some reason that can’t happen you are in a pretty serious pickle of your own making.

You will need a valid outbound clearance to check into Grenada, if you arrive without one, you will be fined EC$500 to EC$2500 at the officer’s discretion (so be very nice to him!). A valid registration is also required, of course. Without it, I suspect you will be turned away, but do not know this for a fact.

When you ask if you can “quietly” sail to Grenada, I am not sure what you mean. You can sail directly there, it’s not far, without stopping. If you mean can you stop in SVG without checking in, no. You might get away with it, you might not. I’ll warn you, having been thrown out of one country your chances of a sympathetic ear in the next one get really small.

Your best bet for staying out of serious trouble might be going back to Martinique. Their procedures are pretty relaxed. Your “must be in Grenada in two weeks” might have to change until you sort out this mess.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

Not sure if Josee would be pleased with his name and number (though I presume it's the registrar help line) here in plain view....

Public servant with public title, on public record with public phone number. I apologize for trying to save you hours on the phone. It won't happen again.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

Your “must be in Grenada in two weeks” might have to change until you sort out this mess.

I would emphasize this point. No matter what your reason might be for wanting to be in Grenada, your schedule is out the window. Your first priority needs to be sorting out your registration mess.


Good luck.

[TeddyDiver]

What they do with swedes? They don't have one (boat registration) so it can't expire--

[doprin]

I understand the need to sort out the registration. I am working on getting one.

I am just looking for clarity on my customs status. Custom would not answer me on staying.

I am denied entry to St Lucia. So I can not anchor here and wait for registration document?

If yes then I have to leave?

If I leave and attempt entry to St Vincent. They will also deny me entry.

It seems I have two options. Stay anchored in St Lucia . Do not go ashore. Wait for my new document and hope they don't bother me.

Or make my way quietly down to Grenada. In that time period I will have my new document to give customs.

Just trying to make the best of a bad situation.

[Montanan]

St. Lucia has properly not granted Free Pratique upon your arrival which definitely means one cannot make landfall, but seemingly one could persuade the customs and border patrol to avail you to anchor out while you await the arrival of a current vessel registry. This will not be their first rodeo in dealing with a Stateless vessel which is proactively seeking to resolve its malfeasance.

Continuing your voyage just compounds the problem: 1) You likely will not be issued a port clearance document / zarpe because you were not allowed entry hence cannot discharge the entry. 2) Renewed arrival without a zarpe will result in a fine [discretionary as to amount] and yet again being denied Free Pratique.

You landed yourself in a real pickle. You are Canadian so well versed in saying Sorry. Just get the Transport personnel to expedite your paperwork. Express overnight delivery or next day delivery to the island, not slow boat. Albeit this is Easter Week so the bureau may be understaffed.

There is always the alternatives of simply sailing about in international water, laying hove to and a drift awaiting arrival of your documents to St. Lucia, the boat will float just as well out in the Caribbean Sea as at anchor; or sailing back to Canada, but then being an unflagged vessel you might be denied entry there also.

Well at least, the third alternative, detention and impounding has yet to arise, but is not out of the realm of possibility.

Moral of this story: Don't leave homeport without being allowed for the vessel to wear its flag.

BTW: Have you checked the expiry date of your passports? They should have at least 6 months of remaining validity in order to be allowed to clear most countries immigration, some countries allow as short as 3 months of remaining validity.

As stated in the post above. Forget your schedule and your destination for now.

Bon voyages.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

What they do with swedes? They don't have one (boat registration) so it can't expire--

A bit of topic for the OP but here is info regarding Swedish boats and ships.

https://www.transportstyrelsen.se/en...r-of-Shipping/


Swedish Register of Boats

Vessels with a length over all up to 24 meters are called boats and shall (or may) be registered in the Register of Boats, please see below.

All Swedish boats with a length over all exceeding 15 meters must be registered in the Register of Boats. Boats used commercially for tugging, towing, transport of goods or passengers, for fishing or renting to the public must also be registered, if the length of the hull exceeds 5 meters. Boats used for private use with a length over all not exceeding 15 meters may be registered at the owner's request.

Boats are considered Swedish if they are owned to an extent of more than 50 per cent by a Swedish citizen or a Swedish legal person. However, it is also possible for citizens of the EU/EEA to register their boats in Sweden, providing that the owner is a Swedish resident and the vessel normally is stationed in Sweden. Legal persons of the EU/EEA may also register vessels in Sweden, provided that the boat is part of an economic undertaking established in Sweden and the operation of the boat is managed and controlled from Sweden.

Boats with a length over all exceeding 15 meters that are normally stationed in Sweden have to be registered in Sweden even if the boat is not considered Swedish, if the owner of the boat is having his permanent residence in Sweden.

Swedish Register of Shipping

All Swedish ships (vessels with a length over all exceeding 24 meters) must be registered in the Register of Ships, part of the Swedish Register of Shipping. Mandatory registration also applies to recreational craft that are classified as ships. Swedish vessels with a length over all up to 24 meters are called boats.

The principal rule is that a ship must be owned to an extent of more than 50 per cent by a Swedish citizen or a Swedish legal person, in order for the vessel to be considered Swedish and be eligible for registration in the Swedish Register of Ships. However, it is also possible for citizens of the EU/EEA to register their ships in Sweden, providing that the owner is a Swedish resident and the vessel normally is stationed in Sweden. Legal persons of the EU/EEA may also register vessels in Sweden, provided that the ship is part of an economic undertaking established in Sweden and the operation of the ship is managed and controlled from Sweden.

Registration may also be possible for ships whose owners do not meet the requirements above, if the owner is given permission according to the Swedish Maritime Code (1994:1009), chapter 1 section 1b. Such permission is granted by the Swedish Transport Agency if the vessel is essentially under Swedish control or if the ship owner has his permanent residency in Sweden.

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by Montanan

A bit of topic for the OP but here is info regarding Swedish boats and ships.

https://www.transportstyrelsen.se/en...r-of-Shipping/


Swedish Register of Boats

Vessels with a length over all up to 24 meters are called boats and shall (or may) be registered in the Register of Boats, please see below.

All Swedish boats with a length over all exceeding 15 meters must be registered in the Register of Boats. Boats used commercially for tugging, towing, transport of goods or passengers, for fishing or renting to the public must also be registered, if the length of the hull exceeds 5 meters. Boats used for private use with a length over all not exceeding 15 meters may be registered at the owner's request.

Boats are considered Swedish if they are owned to an extent of more than 50 per cent by a Swedish citizen or a Swedish legal person. However, it is also possible for citizens of the EU/EEA to register their boats in Sweden, providing that the owner is a Swedish resident and the vessel normally is stationed in Sweden. Legal persons of the EU/EEA may also register vessels in Sweden, provided that the boat is part of an economic undertaking established in Sweden and the operation of the boat is managed and controlled from Sweden.

Boats with a length over all exceeding 15 meters that are normally stationed in Sweden have to be registered in Sweden even if the boat is not considered Swedish, if the owner of the boat is having his permanent residence in Sweden.

Swedish Register of Shipping

All Swedish ships (vessels with a length over all exceeding 24 meters) must be registered in the Register of Ships, part of the Swedish Register of Shipping. Mandatory registration also applies to recreational craft that are classified as ships. Swedish vessels with a length over all up to 24 meters are called boats.

The principal rule is that a ship must be owned to an extent of more than 50 per cent by a Swedish citizen or a Swedish legal person, in order for the vessel to be considered Swedish and be eligible for registration in the Swedish Register of Ships. However, it is also possible for citizens of the EU/EEA to register their ships in Sweden, providing that the owner is a Swedish resident and the vessel normally is stationed in Sweden. Legal persons of the EU/EEA may also register vessels in Sweden, provided that the ship is part of an economic undertaking established in Sweden and the operation of the ship is managed and controlled from Sweden.

Registration may also be possible for ships whose owners do not meet the requirements above, if the owner is given permission according to the Swedish Maritime Code (1994:1009), chapter 1 section 1b. Such permission is granted by the Swedish Transport Agency if the vessel is essentially under Swedish control or if the ship owner has his permanent residency in Sweden.

The long and short of that, if you are traveling on your boat internationally it would be an excellent idea to register your boat, even in cases when Sweden does not require it, but allows it. Otherwise you WILL run into problems, more likely the further you get from Sweden.

[Montanan]

National Character: Stateless, Flagless, Unregistered Vessels.

https://www.humanrightsatsea.org/sit..._2021_SP_0.pdf

"A stateless ship is one without national identity. Statelessness arises when
the ship is not registered in any Nation State and is not entitled to fly [wear] the flag of any Nation State.

The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (‘UNCLOS’) does not require a ship on the high seas to have a Flag State, it is customary that she must possess national character to be allowed to use the high seas freely.

When a vessel is removed from a nation's register whilst on the high seas and en route or othewise [e.g. expiry] removal from the register, means she was no longer entitled to wear [fly] the nation's flag and is stripped of its nationality.

Entitlement to flag is important as it allows the ship to possess a ‘national character’ and gives certain rights to the vessel and to the seafarers on board under the laws of the Flag State, regardless of the ship’s geographical location.

Therefore, seafarers on board a stateless ship are deprived of rights that they would have otherwise been entitled to under the Flag State law.

Thus, a ship sailing on the high seas when not under the jurisdiction of a Flag State is not sailing without risk or consequence."




Noteably:

A stateless vessel is subject to the laws and regulations of the Nation whose territorial waters it resides in or transits.
A State may exercise jurisdiction over foreign flagged vessels within its ports and internal waters. By way of example, the Nation could deem the stateless vessel has been imported and impose duty, VAT, etc. immediately.

[tbodine88]

I once sailed in to and out of Guadeloupe with out ever seeing customs and immigration. Even though I tried to find them in their office.

This might be a place to go.

[TonyNA]

Simple answer is to go back to Martinique, check-in as per usual, sort out your registration document then go wherever you want.

[TheOffice]

Originally Posted by TonyNA

Simple answer is to go back to Martinique, check-in as per usual, sort out your registration document then go wherever you want.

WINNER!! Check in/out there on the computer when you get your registration, then go on.