"Curious about circumnavigating/no experience"

[LLCoolDave]

"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few."

My intro to sailing was watching Maiden Trip, the Laura Dekker doc, about a dozen times. I was like, "holy #@#%!, this is a thing people do? I'm in!" So of course my initial goal was circumnavigation. Now I don't care so much and the main goal is to get to the South Pacific in five years. Most of the cruisers I'm around are very happy in the Caribbean. Its close to home usually and they enjoy snorkeling, scuba diving, and kite surfing to their heart's content. A friendly member here made this comment on one of my earliest threads and I've always remembered it.

"Blue water under the keel, green water over the deck, and white spray off the bow, pick a colour and call it yours. To sail across an ocean or just island hop, the water is the same and the pleasure you get from it is up to you."

Great thread, Ned. I've enjoyed everyone's stories.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I never can understand this 'must have sailed a dinghy' clause so many go on about..
I learnt the basics on 27ft Montague whalers and 32ft cutters with crews and powered by oars once the sails and mast were dropped..or no wind.
I then (some 15yrs later) bought a timber 24ft bilge keeler and refreshed my limited skills coastal sailing between the Solent and Weymouth for a year before venturing across to Cherbourg and the Channel Islands of Alderney and Guernsey.
The navigation I agree with.. A good understanding of tides, positioning by cocked hat sighting and dead reckoning at a minimum.. along with reading a chart and understanding the symbols, just looking at a screen is not good enough if you don't know what things mean.

Yep. Note I did not say "must'. I said 'it does help'.



Although my own sailing experience prior to our rtw was mostly sailing Optis, it is obvious that sailing can be learned on any (almost) sailing boat.


When the boat we learn in is somewhat similar to the one we will do our rtw in, it helps too (there are some differences btw say sailing a tall ship and sailing a Pearson 27, etc. - which makes a tall ship an imperfect learner's sailing boat - when our target is to rtw)


I think today most future ocean sailors start in keelers, not in dinghies.


Cheers and Happy New Year !


barnakiel

[inchcailloch]

Originally Posted by smacksman

The Canaries, Trinidad and Panama are full of boats where the romantic dream ended with a bump.

Have sailed to each if those places.........and not that many yachts, in my experience. However if there are, a golden opportunity for good haggling as particularly Trinidad and Panama not cheap for keeping yachts there so folk will want rid of them

[edmundsteele]

It began during a bleak autumn afternoon in New Mexico, grey skies and cold rain. My wife said, “Why don’t we go sailing?” We spent that Christmas in the Grenadines taking an ASA sailing course for a week. The following May we returned to the Grenadines and bare-boat chartered a 38’ sloop for another week and were thrilled that we able to return the boat in undamaged condition and furthermore got our deposit back after a fun week of cruising. We had determined that we wanted to circumnavigate and were reading everything nautical that we could find, plus hanging around at boat shows. What to buy? Used or new? What length? Island Packet were offering a special deal to the first purchaser of their new model but when we looked in detail at their offer, they wanted to know what kind of winches we wanted, what windlass etc. We knew even less about winches and windlasses than we did about blue water boats. We realized that we would likely buy the wrong boat due to our inexperience, thus our plan was to buy “something’, keep it for 18 to 24 months and by then we should have learned what we really needed. That November we took a second one week ASA course on intermediate navigation out of Fort Lauderdale and since the Amel dealer was there, we arranged to see his demonstrator. The Amel looked very unimpressive from internet pictures but in the flesh, presented itself as a serious blue water boat. BTW, the Amel came factory equipped with “everything” including pots, pans, dishes and two hairdryers. We purchased the demonstrator, a 2001 model Super Maramu ketch and yes, with a total of 3 weeks sailing experience, we were able to get both insurance and financing. We sailed her from Fort Lauderdale in July of 2003, spent the next six months preparing her for a circumnavigation and left Kemah, Texas on New Year’s Eve, 2003.

One criticism on this thread has been that inexperienced sailors are putting other people’s lives in danger. We never considered for a moment that if we got into trouble, there would be anyone who would be able to rescue us. Most helicopters have a total range of about 250 miles, so that form of rescue is not a viable option for blue water sailors. Blue water “rescues” as such are typically carried out by commercial shipping, days after an Epirb has been triggered. We carried $26K in spare parts so that we could self-repair / jury rig a complete knock-down that damaged the rigging, or a lightning strike that took out all of the electrics. We carried a first aid kit that included such items as sutures and Demerol. We became open water certified for scuba and carried dive gear and air tanks aboard.

Most people assumed that we would never complete a circumnavigation and several folks had bets that we wouldn’t make it past Isla Mujeres, Mexico. The real first cruisers we met were at the marina in Colon, Panama and in the first eleven months of sailing 11,000 miles from Texas to New Zealand, we saw three other sails at sea. It’s a big ocean. I have read that at any one time there are perhaps 200 vessels around the globe (all nationalities) that are circumnavigating. That would be around 70 per ocean. From our experience in crossing the Indian Ocean in 2006 that seems about right. We saw two other boats at various anchorages that were transiting the Indian Ocean and heading up the Red Sea through pirate country.

We completed our six year circumnavigation in 2009 and sold our Super Maramu, not because we were through with sailing for good but because the grand-children were arriving on the scene and there was no point in keeping a premier blue water cruiser like the Amel rotting in a marina. She sold within three weeks of coming on the market and headed out for a second three year circumnavigation with her new owner.

We enjoyed a fantastic experience, never to be repeated because there is only one “first time”. Just like the Bumfuzzles, we had very little experience in the beginning but a couple of months into a circumnavigation, you already have more offshore experience than most of the thousands of boat owners whose boats you see tied up at the marinas.
Ed

[JamesPNW]

I always want to circumnavigate and go as many rounds as I can do, regardless of experiences or not. The ocean is unpredictable and challenging; one can never be so sure of what Mother Nature decides on any given days. I have a healthy respect for the ocean, the unknown and know where my limits are. They are guard rails for my decisions. Any hindsight is always about what one shoulda, coulda, and woulda. But hey what’s the fun in that.

[Boatguy30]

Originally Posted by Yihang

The Suez canal situation probably put a plug on a lot of people's plans? Seems like crossing the Indian ocean and then the south Atlantic is something you do for the sake of doing rather than by choice? Might be fun in a fast boat with an adventurous crew but not some where most retired couples would want to hang around in.

the sail up the atlantic from SA is said to be one of the nicest sails in any ocean. I think leaving SA with a good window or sailing up the coast as far as is friendly makes things easier. Also same in the Indian, careful coastal hopping S to Cape Town is essential. At least 70% of the trip up the Red Sea is a hard beat and whilst friendlier these days, its a difficult trip on many boats.

[Rimica]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

I really don't understand the attraction of the ARC. I sail to explore - and "going 'round" in two years is the antithesis of that.

We did the Atlantic Arc. We did it for a few reasons:

1) get more knowledgeable on crossing
2) it felt safer and for some boats help was needed and delivered.
3) no worry on where to land

We were happy we did it with the Arc. My second crossing will be on our own all things being equal.

But things have changed with COVID. Countries are more restrictive. We crossed form USVI to Norfolk with the SaltyDawgs. It was a great help to navigate the administrative nightmare of landing a foreign boat in the US during the COVID era.

We are thinking of joining the Outremer Rally which will go across the planet in3 years. A better pace than the Arc. So why am I considering joining:

1. They take care of the country of entry paperwork, permission, permits ...
2. At each destination a tech team will be present for maintenance with access to the required parts
3: after each stopping point we will have a few months to explore before the departure to the next point.

Given the state of the world during this pandemic and the scars it will leave on governments trying to protect its citizens. A bit of organizational support is a good thing..

[NedX]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

This also reminds how much time gets wasted here on CF by people who post they never have sailed, but then list all the “Bluewater” boat requirements they have and who then go on to argue about it.

True, but the eddies rippling out from those "arguments" generating interesting knowledge, links, and veteran posters to take note of. If you've got nothing better to do, that is.

[NedX]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I never can understand this 'must have sailed a dinghy' clause so many go on about..
I learnt the basics on 27ft Montague whalers and 32ft cutters with crews and powered by oars once the sails and mast were dropped..or no wind.
I then (some 15yrs later) bought a timber 24ft bilge keeler and refreshed my limited skills coastal sailing between the Solent and Weymouth for a year before venturing across to Cherbourg and the Channel Islands of Alderney and Guernsey.
The navigation I agree with.. A good understanding of tides, positioning by cocked hat sighting and dead reckoning at a minimum.. along with reading a chart and understanding the symbols, just looking at a screen is not good enough if you don't know what things mean.

I can't imagine handling a Channel tidal race without at least some experience managing a sailboat in a current, so the dinghy thing doesn't make sense to me either. Now, sailing a 27' Soling (no outboard/ one paddle) around Boston Harbor, on the other hand; that can give at least rudimentary experience in tides (9-12 feet ) currents (2-3 kt) and quasi rips (ebb tide/NE breeze at Deer Island, e.g.). But then I'm notoriously cautious.

[NedX]

Originally Posted by KelseyB

Haha I like that I've been dragged into this! To give my unqualified two cents, I think that the people who are successful, in addition to those who do it unintentionally, are the ones who are terrified before they leave the dock. I don't think it's good for the sailing community or new sailors to have the first thing new sailors hear be all the terrifying stuff (scares people off), so I'll just clear that up, but step one of the whole thing is going past the romanticism into the terrifying stuff, and step two is coming out of the terrifying stuff back into the romanticism. Its going, "yea, okay, got it, but I still wanna do it anyway." So that goes back to what others have been saying about how those who come out and say "I want to expand my cruising range" instead of "I want to circumnavigate" are more likely to circumnavigate, because even if you're thinking of the circumnavigation but you're afraid, then you probably won't blab that goal to the whole world lest you back out or fail. And if you're afraid of it, then I think you might have a better chance of being successful because you have a better sense of what you're getting into in the first place.

Anything you say is a quality two cents, because you are the person who is basically building the boat they intend to sail. That puts you in a group of sailors who already know the most important thing about sailing alone/far from shore: You know how to fix what gets busted because you've already built it. A guy like me has had to learn something new each time something breaks, watching YouTube videos with one hand while holding the screwdriver in the other.

I also put the avionics guy from another thread in that category, as well as NoFacey, who dreamed of building a boat, did it, and sailed RTW in it. If that'd been me, I'd still be stuck at the word "of"

[NedX]

Originally Posted by edmundsteele

It began during a bleak autumn afternoon in New Mexico, grey skies and cold rain. My wife said, “Why don’t we go sailing?” We spent that Christmas in the Grenadines taking an ASA sailing course for a week. The following May we returned to the Grenadines and bare-boat chartered a 38’ sloop for another week and were thrilled that we able to return the boat in undamaged condition and furthermore got our deposit back after a fun week of cruising. We had determined that we wanted to circumnavigate and were reading everything nautical that we could find, plus hanging around at boat shows. What to buy? Used or new? What length? Island Packet were offering a special deal to the first purchaser of their new model but when we looked in detail at their offer, they wanted to know what kind of winches we wanted, what windlass etc. We knew even less about winches and windlasses than we did about blue water boats. We realized that we would likely buy the wrong boat due to our inexperience, thus our plan was to buy “something’, keep it for 18 to 24 months and by then we should have learned what we really needed. That November we took a second one week ASA course on intermediate navigation out of Fort Lauderdale and since the Amel dealer was there, we arranged to see his demonstrator. The Amel looked very unimpressive from internet pictures but in the flesh, presented itself as a serious blue water boat. BTW, the Amel came factory equipped with “everything” including pots, pans, dishes and two hairdryers. We purchased the demonstrator, a 2001 model Super Maramu ketch and yes, with a total of 3 weeks sailing experience, we were able to get both insurance and financing. We sailed her from Fort Lauderdale in July of 2003, spent the next six months preparing her for a circumnavigation and left Kemah, Texas on New Year’s Eve, 2003.

One criticism on this thread has been that inexperienced sailors are putting other people’s lives in danger. We never considered for a moment that if we got into trouble, there would be anyone who would be able to rescue us. Most helicopters have a total range of about 250 miles, so that form of rescue is not a viable option for blue water sailors. Blue water “rescues” as such are typically carried out by commercial shipping, days after an Epirb has been triggered. We carried $26K in spare parts so that we could self-repair / jury rig a complete knock-down that damaged the rigging, or a lightning strike that took out all of the electrics. We carried a first aid kit that included such items as sutures and Demerol. We became open water certified for scuba and carried dive gear and air tanks aboard.

Most people assumed that we would never complete a circumnavigation and several folks had bets that we wouldn’t make it past Isla Mujeres, Mexico. The real first cruisers we met were at the marina in Colon, Panama and in the first eleven months of sailing 11,000 miles from Texas to New Zealand, we saw three other sails at sea. It’s a big ocean. I have read that at any one time there are perhaps 200 vessels around the globe (all nationalities) that are circumnavigating. That would be around 70 per ocean. From our experience in crossing the Indian Ocean in 2006 that seems about right. We saw two other boats at various anchorages that were transiting the Indian Ocean and heading up the Red Sea through pirate country.

We completed our six year circumnavigation in 2009 and sold our Super Maramu, not because we were through with sailing for good but because the grand-children were arriving on the scene and there was no point in keeping a premier blue water cruiser like the Amel rotting in a marina. She sold within three weeks of coming on the market and headed out for a second three year circumnavigation with her new owner.

We enjoyed a fantastic experience, never to be repeated because there is only one “first time”. Just like the Bumfuzzles, we had very little experience in the beginning but a couple of months into a circumnavigation, you already have more offshore experience than most of the thousands of boat owners whose boats you see tied up at the marinas.
Ed

I like this story. But you also did something cautious before you just went for it; when you brought back that 38-foot charter with no damage, you did something most people who just went for it never did.

[NedX]

Originally Posted by LLCoolDave

"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few."

My intro to sailing was watching Maiden Trip, the Laura Dekker doc, about a dozen times. I was like, "holy #@#%!, this is a thing people do? I'm in!" So of course my initial goal was circumnavigation. Now I don't care so much and the main goal is to get to the South Pacific in five years. Most of the cruisers I'm around are very happy in the Caribbean. Its close to home usually and they enjoy snorkeling, scuba diving, and kite surfing to their heart's content. A friendly member here made this comment on one of my earliest threads and I've always remembered it.

"Blue water under the keel, green water over the deck, and white spray off the bow, pick a colour and call it yours. To sail across an ocean or just island hop, the water is the same and the pleasure you get from it is up to you."

Great thread, Ned. I've enjoyed everyone's stories.

Thanks, Dave. I love learning about the thing that inspired people. Now I get to google another doc.

[Dulls]

Originally Posted by inchcailloch

The best experience for doing a circumnavigation is to do a circumnavigation! I'd never pass my RYA Yachtmaster but then. It many Yachtmasters do a circumnavigation.....I'm not decrying it, RYA qualifications are the best and most recognised in the world. I'm simply recognising my ability does not attain those standards. But from Scotland have crossed single hands the Atlantis 3 times, Pacific one and Tasman sea (most challenging IMHO)3 times. Insuspect Indian ocean will be challeging and clearly SE South Africa.......but thats to come.

You get to know your yacht till it's an extension of your body. The "only" difference between 20 miles off land and 2000 miles is isolation and self dependency (put simply). You go 1 mile... why not another then another then another..........suddenly you are 1/2 way around the world, Break it up into legs and sounds far more realistic. Most I met had none or very little training (ie self taught or learned in local club or with friends.)............they started local and just kept going. Jimmy Cornell's book on live aboard statistics is an interesting read.

Sitting very impatiently in the UK waiting to continue, maybe the biggest problem you will face in the journey will be COVID. Probably more likely to catch and die of covid than drown on your circumnavigation (not stating it as a scientific fact). But for now no-one can circumnavigate except in their dreams.........but that's where is all starts! And don't start reading books by Magellan, Joshua Slocum, Robin Knox Johnson etc. If you are weak willed like me you'll get drawn into it, end up going .......and not regret one minute.

The RYA courses are great. You can do them but you dont need to pass or do the exams. You will have learnt a lot that you wont forget. Some people are just not made for exams or need them. It wont affect your knowledge.

[wholybee]

I don't know the number of people that do it, but the percentage of circumnavigators with little to no experience seems high to me, based on who I met along the way. I met quite a few people and families that bought a boat to circumnavigate, then afterwards immediately sold the boat. I still also think that nearly 100% of those that dream of it, or even buy a boat for it never leave. I met very few lifelong sailors that were circumnavigators. When I did, they were often on their 3rd, 4th, or 5th time around.

Myself, I started sailing (no prior experience in 2014, bought a boat in 2015, left SF in 2018, and am now on the East Coast. I plan to leave here next winter and complete my circumnavigation in 2022.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Dulls

The RYA courses are great. You can do them but you dont need to pass or do the exams. You will have learnt a lot that you wont forget. Some people are just not made for exams or need them. It wont affect your knowledge.

Please no, the RYA courses are all designed as hands on practical systems , Day Skipper has no course only content , RYA coastal and Yachtmsster offshore are purely on boat exams , there is no specific syllabus. ( lots of schools have dreamt them up and unfortunately the RYA has decided to certificate these their courses )

For example the actual RYA Yachtmaster Offshore exam , is actually very different from the shorebased “ yachtmaster “ course , and in fact offers you little help in passing the practical exam . ( which is why schools often offer YO exam prep weeks )

As an excellent starter , if you can access it do the tidal RYA day skipper , which includes the on board exam component. Most schools do it by a form of continual assessment on board plus a simple paper exam. It’s a very enjoyable experience and even if you fail to pass , that failure in itself will teach you stacks