Another extreme overreach of the Government

[sandy stone]

Originally Posted by thinwater

In the name of responsible posting, I would suggest:

• Reading the actual proposal instead of some click bait.https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/natio...as---northeast
• It is only a public comment and it is not from Biden. It is from NOAA.
• Most of these are off-season, when your boat is safely tucked away for the winter. Look at the dates. Nearly all are November through April.
• Most are already in place. And they didn't bother you.
• Most of the east Coast is simply an exaggeration. Look at the maps.

In fact, this might be another case of extreme over-posting.


If you want to comment, learn the procedure, which is citizenship 102. You do NOT contact your Congressman. That is not how regulatory notice works. First, this is not a proposed law, it is a regulation, which is managed by the agency, not by act of a Congress. Second, you reply directly to the docket. The instruction are in the notice.

You expect a calm, logical discussion of the facts? You realize this is an internet forum, right?

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by wyb2

Given the low number of actual recorded strikes, there is probably a legitimate argument that this is unnecessary. But god, that article was just painful to read. We get it - the ‘gerd ‘derm ‘gubment is stealing our freedom!!!



"They can’t maintain steerage [at 10 knots,]" he added. "If you’re going that speed you’re going to [run] aground."



Buuulllllls*****. This regulation wouldn’t invent speeds below 10 knts, that you’ve never had to contend with before in history. If you can’t steer at 10 knts, your boat is designed wrong.

Given how small the breeding population has gotten, any strikes is a threat to the species.

[skipperpete]

Well this happened off San Diego[ATTACH]268990

[davil]

[QUOTE=thinwater;3720655]In the name of responsible posting, I would suggest:

• Reading the actual proposal instead of some click bait.https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/natio...as---northeast
• It is only a public comment and it is not from Biden. It is from NOAA.
• Most of these are off-season, when your boat is safely tucked away for the winter. Look at the dates. Nearly all are November through April.
• Most are already in place. And they didn't bother you.
• Most of the east Coast is simply an exaggeration. Look at the maps.

In fact, this might be another case of extreme over-posting.


If you want to comment, learn the procedure, which is citizenship 102. You do NOT contact your Congressman. That is not how regulatory notice works. First, this is not a proposed law, it is a regulation, which is managed by the agency, not by act of a Congress. Second, you reply directly to the docket. The instruction are in the notice.

=========================================
Reply with quote to maintain the very basics on posting and as a reminder!!!

thank you

[desodave]

Don't feel quite so singled out. We also have 10 knot limits in defined areas to protect the southern resident orca population in the Strait of Juan de Fuca and around the mouth of the Fraser River. These are prime feeding areas for the southern residents who range along the Pacifc Coast from N California to the Salish Sea and Vancouver Island. The limits here are to cut engine noise which impacts the orcas' ability to find food that is increasingly scarce

There have also been several dead humpback whales found along the BC Coast this year, the victims of boat strikes. Our DFO is also running an educational program with a "See a Blow,Go Slow" slogan aimed at getting recreational boaters to both look for the whales and to respect their space. I don't see what the problem is to to slow down in specific areas. In our case, the humpbacks have just recently returned to our area after being hunted to near extinction in the early part of the 20th century.


https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/...s-ers-eng.html

[scherzoja]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Given how small the breeding population has gotten, any strikes is a threat to the species.

I'd like to expand on Adelie's comment regarding the size and vulnerability of the right whale reproduction so that y'all might have a better understanding of why this is an important change.

In this NOAA document are details behind the reasoning for this rules modification and why it's important to now include vessels 35' to 65' (> 65' already have to travel < 10kts in these areas). The rule change just seeks to include 35' to 65'.

https://www.regulations.gov/document...2022-0022-0005

In paragraph 3 of the "Background" section, you will see the logic supporting this rule modification.

"NMFS has determined that the Potential Biological Removal (PBR) for the species—defined by the MMPA as “the maximum number of individuals, not including natural mortalities, that may be removed from a marine mammal stock while allowing that stock to reach or maintain its optimum sustainable population”—is 0.7 whales (NMFS 2021). This means that for the species to recover, the population cannot sustain, on average over the course of a year, the death or serious injury of a single individual due to human causes."

Further down in this document you can read about the the occurrence of whale strikes by vessels in the 35' to 65' range (see section "Need for Additional Action"). Keep in mind that the data show "documented" strikes and it is unknown how many strikes are undocumented.

In light of the difficulty that the right whales have in reproduction, it is not unreasonable to limit boat speed in these areas during these specific months so that this species that is struggling from near-extinction, which was caused by us a few generations ago, can have the best chance of survival that we can give it with the information we have. Or have we become too selfish for that?

[psk125]

Seem to have read somewhere that whale excretions serve to increase plankton (and therefore fish) growth. Whale die-off may mean sport fishermen will not have any need to rush through the zone- there won't be any fish to catch.
https://www.pbsnc.org/blogs/science/...-better-place/
https://whalesense.org/2021/08/23/im...f-whale-feces/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whale_feces
It's a bit like the cartoon of the fisherman who doesn't like his hook getting tangled in the weeds of the lake, so he goes and pulls them out. The fish like hiding in the weeds, so they go elsewhere, and the fisherman doesn't catch anything until the weeds grow back. Not slowing down could mean Right Whales die out: that the weeds never grow back.
If I can get my sailboat to go ten knots, it's a happy day. It can happen, but it doesn't happen every day.

[wyb2]

To be clear, I was saying if someone wanted to do the groundwork, there may be (I should have said may be instead of probably) a legitimate argument against. The article focused 100% on the unfathomable inconvenience of such a regulation, which I found disingenuous and annoying.

I’m not well read enough on the topic to know what’s truly correct (though I think following this thread has left me a least a tiny bit better informed). But I know if someone is going on and on about how it’s unsafe to try to steer a boat at less than 11 knts, they are probably full of crap.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Be interesting to see if it will extend to commercial shipping which likely cause more lethal/crippling whale strikes than small boats.

Yet Iceland , Norway and Japan go there merry way killing hundreds of whales every year--including right whales. But thats just fine with the USA govt!! And Faroe Islands slaughters fin Dolphins with chainsaws buy the thousands -yet this too is OK with the US govt!!

[Mike OReilly]

Where has the US government ever said it is "OK" with Iceland, Norway or Japan continuing their "research" whale hunt? Citations of official statements please... Whaling has been illegal in the US, and most other countries, for many decades. It's pretty clear what the US policy is on this topic.

And what does this have to do with the proposal anyway??? These other countries are, you know,... other countries. Not everything is under US control.

As many posters have already pointed out, this regulation has already been applied to larger, typically commercial, vessels. Canada, which shares the same coastline, has instituted similar restrictions for years now. And there are other regions which do similar things for other endangered whale species. Seems to me the only "extreme" thing being displayed here is the hyperbolic response by a few to this proposed regulation.

If you have a criticism based on actual facts, not just some claim of 'extreme overreach by the gubbermint,' then make it. That's what the process is all about.

[Oeanda]

Yeah we get lots of dead beach humpbacks up here… A couple just last month. One from ‘blunt force trauma’, and one yet to be determined.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by HeywoodJ

If you want to have an honest discussion, avoid the hyperbole. The 100-mile offshore zone is less than one-third of the east coast, and there is nothing even close to that in Florida. Three-quarters (or more) of the Florida coastline has no association with the proposed regulation, and where the SMA does exist along the NE coast it is only a few miles wide.

Attachment 268980



By that argument, your status a non-citizen of the US means your opinion on US regulations is of zero interest. Stop being rude. Wink or no wink it's rude.

It is flabbergasting how misguided your statement is. As a US taxpayer and a Florida resident, owner of my marina slip in Port Canaveral and directly affected by these proposed regulations, I am very much in my right to voice opinions on this matter.

If one does not live and not sail in the affected area, but state they are in favor because such and so and “I don’t sail there anyway” then that person is simply tro||ing and degrading any respectful discussion.

[JC Reefer]

I don’t see marine portal ticketing sailors for speeding. It just seems like a silly thing to put in writing. I don’t think it would be enforceable in open waters.

Likely that shipping and NAVY do most the damage.

Submarine buddies of mine say that it’s common to hit sleeping whales. They never report it because of how much paperwork it creates. Big funny joke to them.

[geoleo]

[QUOTE=davil;3720781]

Originally Posted by thinwater

In the name of responsible posting, I would suggest:

• Reading the actual proposal instead of some click bait.https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/natio...as---northeast
• It is only a public comment and it is not from Biden. It is from NOAA.
• Most of these are off-season, when your boat is safely tucked away for the winter. Look at the dates. Nearly all are November through April.
• Most are already in place. And they didn't bother you.
• Most of the east Coast is simply an exaggeration. Look at the maps.

In fact, this might be another case of extreme over-posting.


If you want to comment, learn the procedure, which is citizenship 102. You do NOT contact your Congressman. That is not how regulatory notice works. First, this is not a proposed law, it is a regulation, which is managed by the agency, not by act of a Congress. Second, you reply directly to the docket. The instruction are in the notice.

=========================================
Reply with quote to maintain the very basics on posting and as a reminder!!!

thank you

Biden runs NOAA duh

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Where has the US government ever said it is "OK" with Iceland, Norway or Japan continuing their "research" whale hunt? Citations of official statements please... Whaling has been illegal in the US, and most other countries, for many decades. It's pretty clear what the US policy is on this topic.

And what does this have to do with the proposal anyway??? These other countries are, you know,... other countries. Not everything is under US control.

As many posters have already pointed out, this regulation has already been applied to larger, typically commercial, vessels. Canada, which shares the same coastline, has instituted similar restrictions for years now. And there are other regions which do similar things for other endangered whale species. Seems to me the only "extreme" thing being displayed here is the hyperbolic response by a few to this proposed regulation.

If you have a criticism based on actual facts, not just some claim of 'extreme overreach by the gubbermint,' then make it. That's what the process is all about.

Tell us about any significant action the US govt has made against Norway, Japan and Iceland for them hunting and killing any whales?? Or Faroe Islnders slaughtering dolphins? You can start by listing any diplomatic complaints /letters. Also list any actions in this regard by your Canadian Govt. PS Iceland also immediately slaughters any Polar bears who dare to swim over from Greenland.........and Denmark ia AOK with mass Dolphin murder in Faroe Islands cause "its their tradition". In Isceland the Whale hunting ships are docked within blocks of whale watching tour boats!! They dont eat the whales but sell the meat to Japan. Anything for money is worldwide.