Need Boat 3 Months - Buy, Rent or ?

[Sandero]

Sounds awesome James. Hope the sail north works out. If you have cooperating weather you can ride the stream and get quite the lift.

I don't know your ultimate plans, but entering LIS from the west side via NYC can be challenging. You might want to consider entering at Montauk and sailing west if West LIS is the start point with the crew... which will probably fly into JFK. On the other hand ground transport from JFK to the east end of LIS is about 2 hrs and you can sail north and east. Or you can stard at Port Washington which is about 30 minutes from JFK and then begin the cruise and sail east down the sound hitting the ports on the north and south shores... all interesting.

I in Sag Harbor and if you happen to make it there, give me a shout.

[hellosailor]

James, if you're not already in the wind (or when you get back with us) can you post some details on the paperwork side of things? Folks commonly ask questions about international flagging and entry problems.

Are you flagging the vessel as Australian owned? Did that present any problem versus keeping it in the US and getting a US cruising permit for the boat? (i.e. would they issue you the permit without requiring you to take the boat elsewhere first?) Or did you take some other approach to dealing with the regulatory issues?

Do enjoy your trip! If you're in the Intracoastal, consider buying a towing policy since it is never dredged or marked as well as it is supposed to be, local knowledge is critical and six feet of draft means "kiss and tell" will happen.

When you are on the outside, off the New Jersey coast, exercise caution because it is a lee shore in bad weather, and the shoal bottom extends way further out than most sailors think, making for nasty wave action. Many of the inlets are also impassable (day or night) when the current and wind are at opposites.

Remember our odd tradition of blowing things up on the 4th of July, wherever you are there will be fireworks--and a port closure can be expected from about 4PM till midnight if there are organized activities like that.

[tackdriver]

Originally Posted by defjef

I don't know your ultimate plans, but entering LIS from the west side via NYC can be challenging. You might want to consider entering at Montauk and sailing west if West LIS is the start point with the crew...

Jeff,
I'm hoping to actually visit Manhattan, as the family will be there and my sister in law lives there. I was thinking about somewhere like City Island. Do you know of any marinas that would be commutable by public transport from Manhattan in (say) under 45 minutes?
BTW I'll definitely buy you a beer when we get to Sag Harbour.
cheers
James

[gonesail]

if you are buying for 35K then you must build in more time and money to get the boat up to speed. i would not be in the keys during the summer.

[tackdriver]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

can you post some details on the paperwork side of things? Folks commonly ask questions about international flagging and entry problems.

Sure, good idea. Here goes...

If you want to leave the US for other countries, then you must have a national registration (of some type). If you don't want to leave the US then you can have a state registration, but, in some (most?) cases then there's tax to be paid.
I didn't really explore state reg because I most likely will take the boat to the Bahamas and maybe further, so state reg wouldn't cut it.

So.. I need it to be nationally registered. I can't register with the USCG, because I don't have residency in the US. I could register a company in some funny place in the Caribbean, and then register the boat there, but that involves some $1000's per year, and lots of communication. Australian Reg does not mean that you have to pay Australian tax, and its a one off payment of around USD$600.

The process is straight forward - hire an Agent! You may be able to DIY, but its another thing that I didn't really need to learn about. The process is you apply to the USCG to de-register the boat, and you get an abstract of the boat's history and a de-registration certificate. This information, along with the Bill of Sale goes to the Australian Ship Registration Office and they give you a registration document, and 'marking instructions'. I haven't done this bit, but I believe you then stick the name on the boat (stern and both bows, 4" high) and affix a lump of wood with the number routered into it. Then you get a Notarised affidavit saying this is done, and that's it!

I think most of the process would be the same for other nationalities, but your mileage would vary on the tax and the exact documentation.

Once the boat is de-reged then its a foreign boat and so it needs two things. You need a form from the state tax department stating that you are leaving in a certain number of days, and you aren't a state resident (that's Florida, and maybe others). You get 90 days in Florida. The second thing is from Customs - a cruising permit. That lasts for a year. I don't know what happens after that, probably something inconvienient. As far as I can tell the stuff about reporting in as you move around in the US is not true, but I'll post to that other thread when I've spoken to the customs guys in Florida.

When selling the boat again in the US, if that's what happens, then you can leave the boat in Florida indefinitely as long as its for sale with a broker. Other states may have the same thing. The only time it can be sailed is during a sea test, or to move it to make repairs.

That's about the sum total of my knowledge on this subject.
cheers
James

[Hud3]

Thanks for posting your blog link, James. I'm sure a bunch of us will be interested in following your travels if you're able to update it from time to time. You should be pretty proud of yourself, by the way. Not everyone thought you'd be able to pull your scheme off in the time frame involved. Congratulations, and have a great time!

[tackdriver]

Originally Posted by gonesail

if you are buying for 35K then you must build in more time and money to get the boat up to speed. i would not be in the keys during the summer.

OK I confess, the budget grew. I decided that I needed two cabins, and (no offence to those that own them) I wasn't keen on the Irwins, Morgans and Gulfstars that give you a two cabin layout at the original budget. I also wanted something that would shift as easily as possible when I had to sell. Answer - Beneteau. I also flirted with some Catalinas and older Tartans, but the Bendytoy was the way forward.
I'll have spent around $60k when we finally leave the slip and head North.
For that I got a 20 year old boat with relatively recent sails, a generator, air-con, radar, DSC VHF, autopilot, some other basic equipment, new bottom paint, a new prop and cutlass bearing, new Rocna anchor, a dink and outboard.
I'll want to get $45k back after the brokerage, so I'll need to get around $50k for it at the end, which seems do-able. The same boat sells in Australia for 2x - 2.5x the price, so depending on currency movements, I may consider bringing it back here.

With that all said - yes, I've got some busy days next week.

cheers
James

[Sandero]

James,

There are several options in City Island for mooring. The bus to the train will means waiting for the bus, then the train so the trip will def be in 45 min range min. It's the last stop on the train.

City Island IS a fun place and worth a visit. If getting to Manhattan is going to be a reg thing you might just look at New Rochelle which is on the Metro North train line and is only 25 min to Manhattan (lots of trains) - a tad further away (next town east) geographically by shorter by half w/ public transport. You can check scheds by going toMetroNorth online.

NR has several marinas, clubs and boat yards where you could find "parking" and it's a long dinghy ride to City Island. Use something like Active Captain to locate them.

[tackdriver]

Originally Posted by Hud3

Not everyone thought you'd be able to pull your scheme off in the time frame involved.

To be honest, I had my own doubts, but I've dealt with some fantastic people who have really helped me pull it together, and most of those relationships have started here.
Thanks for your words of encouragement - I have a feeling the next sprint is going to be the toughest part.

cheers
James

[hellosailor]

James-
" The second thing is from Customs - a cruising permit. " Check carefully, you may be required to leave the US and enter a foreign port, then apply for your permit and re-enter the US from there. That could mean a week or two delay as you exit Florida, clear in elsewhere, and wait to get back. Possibly much longer depending on how long it takes to wait for the permit.

City Island can be a PITA for the Manhattan commute. You need to take an express bus (or a city bus then a subway) and pass through some less than ritzy areas in the process. Some of the yacht clubs on CI might give you very good rates for a summer mooring as a visiting foreigner.

The easiest commute to Manhattan would be Liberty Marina, Port Imperiale, or one of the other few on the NJ side opposite Manhattan, one or two stops on the PATH train from midtown or downtown. Not cheap and river traffic makes them rock a bit, but very convenient.

There's Gateway Marina in Brooklyn, inexpensive, sheltered, look to the left of JFK airport on the maps, look left again of Floyd Bennett Field, and Gateway is in that corner. Very casual place, access is by city bus up about a mile to civilization and the NYC subway system, then about 1/2 hour into Manhattan. (All on the same fare.)

On Long Island's north shore there are places in Port Washington (cab or bus or bike to Long Island Railroad, fast trip into Manhattan) or Oyster Bay, a little further out but a fast walk to the same LIRR and then into Manhattan.

I have no idea what the situation will be this summer, usually it is hard to find a place for a boat in NYC but this year, business is bad all over. One of the oldest YC's in Port Washington actually closed up.

[tackdriver]

Just for the record, The Office was sold a year after I left the US for $12k less than I paid for her. Shame the US Peso went from AUD$1 = US$0.83 to AUD$1 = US$1.10 in the time I owned her. I lost more on the exchange rate than the depreciation!

The family have confessed that they are willing to do it again. So now boning up on the Med and boats in Europe. Probably the same gig - buy somewhere in the EU, sail for a year or so and dump it at the end.

Any opinions welcome.
JMB