Money Can Buy Happiness - to a point

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Don.. by third world standards you don't know what poor is..

you would be surprised!

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by boatman61

1. by third world standards you don't know what poor is..
2. I never understand why many think wealth is a badge of honour, it's usually gained at the expense of others...

Indeed.
1. A wealthy man says: I’ve had all my wealth , my reputation, and my true passion, stolen from me.
Now, I’m debt free, reasonably well respected, and very short on stamps.

2. The difference between an impoverished nation and a wealthy nation:
In an impoverished nation, the shelves are empty, and the poor starve.
In a wealthy nation, the shelves are overflowing, and the poor starve.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by davil

===========================================

something like this?

Yep, only happier. ))

[Tedd]

Money is convergently instrumental: It helps you achieve other things. If the things you want to achieve will make you happy, then more money will help. If not, then it won't.


@Dockead: The version of the DLR quote I heard was, "Money can't buy you happiness. But what it can do is buy you a great big yacht so you can sail next to happiness and wave at it."

[Mike OReilly]

Gord has highlighted the key finding of this latest study. For most, money can buy happiness, and more money buys more of it. But not for everyone; specifically not for the bottom percentile of "happiness". For them, it rises to a point, then levels off.

This speaks to older research I recall reading in The Happiness Hypothesis, a book by Dr. Jonathan Haidt. One of the key takeaways was that people generally had a "happiness" set-point, which didn't really deviate much, whatever the life circumstances.

I think Haidt argued this set-point arose as a combination of genetics, and early life experiences. It was possible (he argued) to change this; mainly through practices like long-term meditation, the use of cognitive therapies, and drugs like Prozac. The bottom line was that, you could win the lottery, or become a paraplegic, and neither would substantially change one's "happiness."

From this latest research, it sounds like Haidt was looking at a subset of all people.

I'd love to see the latest paper turned on its head, and look misery vs happiness. Would the same patterns emerge?

[Island Time O25]

Basically money buys time. But only if acquiring the money to begin with is not so time consuming. Otherwise it becomes a zero sum game. The best example is the corporate career climbers who spend inordinate amount of time sacrificing their time with the families, pursuit of their hobbies, etc. only to be able to have the time to enjoy these AFTER reaching a certain level of wealth.

Those of us old enough to remember (and enjoy) the Benny Hill Show might recall his scene with a young character lying under the tree doing nothing and an older character chastizing him for his laziness.
-Why don't you get a job?
-What for?
-So you can earn some money.
-What for?
-So you can save some.
-What for?
-So when you save enough you can stop working and enjoy life!
-I ain't working now!

[MicHughV]

I'm curious to know if anyone has done an exercise to see how much the average person pays in taxes, US and State income tax , real estate tax, fees, various permit fees, vehicle tax, local sales tax, airplane baggage tax, sign up fees, etc, ad infinitum.

Seems like no matter where you go these days, somebody has their hand out for a "fee" or " tax" that has little or nothing to do with a purchase.

At a rough guess, it would seem that at least 50% of one's income gets sucked out of one's wallet, but maybe it's more.....feels like it's more..in taxes and fees.

[Mike OReilly]

Some of the "happiest" people are those in the Scandinavian countries; places with much higher tax rates than the US or Canada.

[Mike OReilly]

On the question of unhappy millionaire, it's certainly true the more one has, the more one can lose. One of the core human psychological characteristics is that we feel loss much stronger than gain. So there might be something to this.

Of course, there is a clear correlation between having wealth and keeping wealth. That's why the best predictor of a person's future wealth is how rich their parents are. Wealth allows people to protect wealth, so rich people need not worry (as much) about loosing it.

[BillyOram]

Oh wow, what a topic!
I grew up in Zululand and the mountains of Lesotho and had a great life. It was not until my 20's that I realized how poor we really were. Since then I have been both in the position of decent abundance and in need.
Keep in mind the bell curve; on one side you have those who are happy and have nothing, and then on the other side you have those with bunches of money but are unhappy. It is hard to understand poverty. Those in poverty have no hope and those who have no hope have no dreams. How can you be happy when you don't know when your next meal will be? I can't speak for those smiling faces in Venezuela but those smiling faces in Haiti are streaming tears at night when the stomachs are cramping from hunger. The poor are very good in masking rheir situation with jokes and laughter. Parents cannot be happy while stressing over food. Those in poverty spend about 65-80% of income on food while the average American spends the opposite or even less. Those in poverty can spend 20-45% of income on non food items while the rest of us spend 75-85% of our income on non food items.
I have lived 3 days before paycheck to 3 days before paycheck, and I have lived earning $105,000(today's equivalent of about 150,000)with no debt and paying cash for everything. I never want to go back to the former!
Yes, money can make you happier but I also believe that the love of money will make you miserable

[MicHughV]

Tough to keep and maintain wealth. Everybody and their uncle are " investing" in the stock market, mutual funds, etc, etc, We are advised to put away "x" percentage of our monthly income into various saving or investing instruments. Stock brokers, Mutual fund managers and other " financial planners" abound by the dozens in each locale, all charging various and sundry " fees". .
And even there, the tax man lurks....capital gains tax, dividend tax, etc, etc.
At the end of the day, the average guy in the street is not likely to make much money if any, as the "market" goes up and down, one's wealth goes up and down with the market, all the while financial planners, et al, etc, are siphoning off their " fee" and one could even " lose" money pending market circumstances.

Finally, the big elephant in the room, credit card debt, with their whopper 18-20% interest rates, makes it very difficult for the average joe to get out of debt, never mind all the rest.

Should you be so fortunate to " inherit" some money....even there " inheritance tax" awaits to cast a pall on your good fortune.

Lastly, I suppose one could win the lotto, but even here, the game is contrived to tax you one way or another.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by BillyOram

Those in poverty have no hope and those who have no hope have no dreams. How can you be happy when you don't know when your next meal will be?

It's important to stress that no research says you can't raise people's happiness if they are truly poor. The discussion is focused on people who already have all their basic worldly needs met: roof, food, comfort, and a little left over for fun.

After this level, earlier research suggested little happiness was gained by having more wealth. This new paper produces a more nuanced understanding, and finds that some people gain no additional happiness with added wealth, but most do -- at varying rates.

That's what is fascinating, and new. More research!

[MicHughV]

I read a study somewhere, sometime, that if every person on the planet were given $10,000, that it wouldn't take long before most of that money would end up in the hands of a few.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Tough to keep and maintain wealth.

Hmmm, perhaps it is. But as I said, the single best indicator of future wealth is the wealth of your parents. Some of this is certainly wealth passed down (inheritance). This is true for the truly rich. Mostly, it is because the wealthier your family is, the easier it is to gain access to the systems that allow you to create more personal wealth; good healthy living, good socialization, good schools all lead to better (happier?) life outcomes.

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Stock brokers, Mutual fund managers and other " financial planners" abound by the dozens in each locale, all charging various and sundry " fees". .

Yup, there are leaches, er, I mean "service people" at every level of the financial food chain. It is possible to avoid it all, but then you have to do all the work.

I'm too poor to worry about any of this. Guess that makes me happy .

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It's important to stress that no research says you can't raise people's happiness if they are truly poor. The discussion is focused on people who already have all their basic worldly needs met: roof, food, comfort, and a little left over for fun.

I think that's a wise assessment.
Many of the people I've met who seem to have "happiness" were those who valued/cultivated their personal relationships with family and others over their desire for more "stuff/toys", which in many cases bring a fleeting joy/smile/satisfaction, but soon just get packed away.