Insurers for an older boat.

[Kintala]

Originally Posted by Michael Henson

I am currently looking for insurance for a couple of different vessels dated from 1973 through 1988. I need this insurance to get into a live aboard slip.

I can’t live on the anchor yet, I can’t use a mooring ball, I have a steady job and I need a marina period.

Can anyone recommend an insurer which will insure a vessel of that age here in Florida?

Thanks in advance!

Man I wish I had good news for you on that front. We just passed on a 40 year old boat last week because we couldn't find anyone to insure it as a live aboard in Florida. Markel will insure a 40 year old boat as a live aboard but not in Florida. Geico won't insure any boat over 30' that is more than 30 years old in Florida. If you can afford a mega yacht you can still do it, but for those of us in the lower budget category there just doesn't seem to be anyone covering them. if anyone has any different information please please chime in.

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by Michael Henson

I am currently looking for insurance for a couple of different vessels dated from 1973 through 1988. I need this insurance to get into a live aboard slip.

I can’t live on the anchor yet, I can’t use a mooring ball, I have a steady job and I need a marina period.

Can anyone recommend an insurer which will insure a vessel of that age here in Florida?

Thanks in advance!

Are you telling them you plan to live aboard ? If so, don’t. In my opinion you want to appear as mainstream as possible and the less information you provide the better. “ Just looking at a .............to sail in Florida and I need some liability insurance “. “ The boat is in excellent shape owned by a retired couple “. You get the drift. Same with marinas, “ need some extended dockage for a month or two” . These entities look for red flags to protect themselves from high risk customers. Many marinas will flat turn you down if you mention being a live aboard. They need to get to know you first. Lots of marinas have live aboards who say live aboard is not allowed.

[DoctorCaptain]

We are with Pantaenius. They seem to have a good policy and provide worldwide coverage for when we move. Price seems good as well. We're on an 1978 Oyster.

[Kintala]

Originally Posted by captlloyd

Are you telling them you plan to live aboard ? If so, don’t. In my opinion you want to appear as mainstream as possible and the less information you provide the better:

In my opinion (and this is only my opinion) this is dangerous advice. If you file a claim and they find out that you were living aboard they will deny the claim.

[Tonali99]

Originally Posted by Catboat Willy

We also use GEICO on a 1990 (30 year old boat). A fixed value at $50 K with a deductible of $5K. Cost $1K per year. We also carry a separate umbrella policy for liability of $3M. Cost $300.00 per year. Boat is behind a private residence and I think that makes a difference as well.

You may have a valid point. My '82 sloop is with Geico (as is my truck) and location may make the difference. I happen to be in a good hurricane hole on the east central coast. Moving from Ft. Pierce saved some bucks.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Kintala

In my opinion (and this is only my opinion) this is dangerous advice. If you file a claim and they find out that you were living aboard they will deny the claim.

It would seem to me that "liveaboard" would need to be firmly defined in the policy. I have coverage all the way to the Turks and Caicos on my boat. If sail it down there, and it takes me six months to do it, am I living aboard?

Surely the insurance company didn't think I was going to ship the boat down there.

Does living aboard only count if the boat is at the marina? Is there a limit to how many days you can sleep on the boat in a year?

If I go stay in a hotel a week a year, am I then merely cruising and not a full time live aboard?

[BlueH2Obound]

Originally Posted by Group9

It would seem to me that "liveaboard" would need to be firmly defined in the policy. I have coverage all the way to the Turks and Caicos on my boat. If sail it down there, and it takes me six months to do it, am I living aboard?

Surely the insurance company didn't think I was going to ship the boat down there.

Does living aboard only count if the boat is at the marina? Is there a limit to how many days you can sleep on the boat in a year?

If I go stay in a hotel a week a year, am I then merely cruising and not a full time live aboard?

I have been told by others wiser in the ways of boat/RV insurance than I, that the legally accepted definition of whether or not you are a "liveaboard" or not is stated below.

Note: Individual insurance companies may or may not have other definitions of what a "Liveaboard" is, but here is what is generally accepted:

If you have a place that you own that you can go to if your boat or RV is unlivable, than you are NOT considered a "liveaboard", or a "Fulltimer". However, if your boat or RV is unlivable, and your only recourse is to stay in a hotel, rent a house, or crash on a friends couch than you are considered a Full time RV'er, or boat Liveaboard.

Typically non Full time RV or non Liveaboard boat insurance does not have the coverages in three areas that we may require:

1. Overall liability limits
2. Personal property coverage
3. Medical coverage

In order to get these coverages in amounts that will cover more than a paltry amount of $$ for loss of personal property, or to provide sufficient medical or liability coverage in the unlucky event that you are sued, you generally have to have Homeowners insurance on a place other than your boat or RV, OR you need to have Full Time RV or Liveaboard boat insurance.

Points to ponder when the sun goes down over the fantail . . .

[S/V Elusive]

To clarify for some who didn't catch the full gist of Michael's statement - the issue is Insurance (at LEAST Liability) for an OVER 40 Y/O boat AND a liveaboard. I've had five different marine insurance agencies search and come back with: "can't find anyone who will cover you." I had Markel and because of issues with how often they wanted an OOW survey, I dropped them - Thinking: "How tough can it be?" Yeah. IMPOSSIBLE, so far. I got Progressive to cover Liability only because I told them that I'm NOT a liveaboard (I do have property elsewhere) - but the marina considers me a full time liveaboard ('cause I am). I now have to periodically spend time at my property (and I will NOT describe the primitive conditions there). I've lived aboard my boat for 21 years and this is the first time I've had this problem (Zero claims BTW). I do NOT want to live anywhere other than my boat.

s/v Elusive
california

[Sandy Frank]

Go to a insurance broker. If it exists, they will find it. I ended up at skisafe.

[Shanachie]

What many people don't understand is that your ability to buy any type of insurance is largely based on your insurance credit score.


Basically, some genius geek took the information used for your FICO credit score and reconfigured it to determine how likely you would be to file an insurance claim.


When people get rejected for insurance or pay extremely high rates, be it for boat or car or house, it's mostly because you didn't fare well on this rating.


That's why someone can insure an old boat with no problem while someone else struggles to find any company willing to take them on.


By the way, anecdotally, I've found Allstate to be a great company to insure boats if you also have car and home insurance with them.


I dropped Geico and saved 30 percent with much better coverage. Also, Geico denied a small but legitimate claim by me, and it left a bad taste in my mouth.


I had to wonder: What games would Geico play if I had a real claim running into the many thousands of dollars?

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

What many people don't understand is that your ability to buy any type of insurance is largely based on your insurance credit score.


Basically, some genius geek took the information used for your FICO credit score and reconfigured it to determine how likely you would be to file an insurance claim.


When people get rejected for insurance or pay extremely high rates, be it for boat or car or house, it's mostly because you didn't fare well on this rating.


That's why someone can insure an old boat with no problem while someone else struggles to find any company willing to take them on.


By the way, anecdotally, I've found Allstate to be a great company to insure boats if you also have car and home insurance with them.


I dropped Geico and saved 30 percent with much better coverage. Also, Geico denied a small but legitimate claim by me, and it left a bad taste in my mouth.


I had to wonder: What games would Geico play if I had a real claim running into the many thousands of dollars?

Of course, that still doesn’t explain wildly different quotes from different companies for similar coverage.

[S/V Elusive]

Two things - the most important is I got Liability Insurance thru SkiSafe (costs about triple what it was listed as costing on the Dec Page of my previous Markel Policy.) In two years, when I haul out for doing my bottom, I will get another survey and see what Markel can offer me.

The second thing is to respond to Shanachie's idea that boating insurance is contingent on your "Insurance?" credit score. I have no idea WHAT my "Insurance" credit score is - 0 claims since I've owned the boat (21 years). I do have an over 800 regular credit score .. so I'm pretty sure that all the denials from the 16 different insurance companies were not based on my credit score; they've just stopped covering (for new customers) older boats and especially those living aboard.

I have touched base with a lot of the boaters in my marina (50% live aboard) and those who have maintained insurance with a particular company don't seem to have a problem (or as much of one). So be VERY careful of dropping your insurance and thinking (like I did) that it would be no problem going with another company.

[MikeO1122]

I got quote from progressive 32ft pilothouse sailboat 540 year liability 300,000

[Pat_D]

For you Geico folk:. I think you will remain insured (grandfathered), but they are not taking new clients with older boats. That's what happened to me and probably explains why some of you have Geico and some of you can't get to Geico.

[Shanachie]

To clarify:


When an insurance company decides whether to insure you, it's a complicated algorithm. Part of that is your credit score and your history of insurance claims.


They also have all kinds of other data on you and your situation: claims in your area, which types of boats generate the most claims, whether you have other insurance with the company, etc.


If they have all kinds of policies for your situation and your type of boat with few claims, you will get coverage. If your type of boat and situation generate lots of claims, good luck with that.


A good hedge is to have your home and car insurance with the company. They tend to like that. They may take on your boat to avoid losing the other policies.


But if you're living paycheck to paycheck, no property and mediocre credit rating, insurance companies are not going to look on you as a good risk. Living aboard an old 30-footer does not inspire confidence.


It's all about the money. As a boater, you just have to deal with it.