How much is enough??

[ssullivan]

Dave: Thank you for that uplifting and true post. It has helped me more than you know, reminding me of goals that can easily be forgotten in the heat of the moment. Excellent. One of the all time best on here.

Any tips on those cheap destinations?

[Leighton]

One of the problems determining how much money you need for retirement, is you don’t know how long you’re going to live for.

If you knew with certainty how long you had left you could budget accordingly and optimize your spending enjoyment.

I tried to get some interest a few years ago from the large Insurance Companies to adopt a product I called “Death Insurance” . Whereas Life Insurance pays out if you die before a certain age, Death Insurance pays out if you live beyond a certain age. You could then plan to spend all your savings by the age of say 70. If you happen to live beyond this then your “Death Insurance” paid out.

Can’t see why it didn’t catch on !!!

[ess105]

I can see why the insurance companies would be shy of this as it has infinite downside.

Normal life insurance is attractive as their downside is you dying sooner rather than later. Given that this is not in most people's interest the insurance buyers motivations are in line with minimising the insurance companies risk.

With Death Insurance the insurance companies would be locked into ever increasing payouts should unpredicatable improvements in health care extend lifespans. No doubt they would have looked at it but they probably figured the cost (to the buyer) of covering that downside risk would make the product unmarketable.

Nice idea though.

The other idea is to size your retirement based on income sources that won't run out such as not touching your principal savings and living off interest/income only.

[Connemara]

This is a tough question, because of the range of assumptions you have to make.

We can’t do much of anything for next few years because the youngest is still in university. So we’ll cruise Lake Ontario, learn the ropes, maybe do some chartering.

By about 2014 at the latest, we should have:

n A larger boat (Connemara is a 27-foot Mirage sloop, not really suited for two people cruising long distances) that is paid-for/mostly paid-for.
n About $300,000 (Can) in retirement annuities, paying (knock on wood) 5% a year.
n About $1,100 a month from the Admiral’s pension.
n About $1,000 a month from government pensions.
n About $20,000 a year from renting our house (10 minutes from downtown in Toronto, in a nice neighborhood.)

With the various income streams, I figure that’s in the range of $60,000 a year.

Based on a recent Cruising World article, I think that’s at the high end of cruiser incomes and should keep us fairly well.

OTOH, that assumes a) that the old age pension will still be there b) that we’ll still be hale and hearty, and c) that we will still want to go gallivanting.

Connemara

[muskoka]

Duchess of Windsor (Wallis Simpson): "You can never be too rich or too thin". Though that was in an era predating rail-thin models...

Anyway, I think the lady's quote speaks of yachts (though perhaps not boats): The rich bit is obviously advantageous. And the thin bit - well, if lightweight laminates can keep an F1 driver intact after a 150mph crash they're obviously prime material for building exciting and sturdy boats. Except, see rule 1 about being rich. Oh, well.

Lowreys Law: "If it jams,force it...if it breaks it needed replacing anyway". Or the age-old, "If it's acting up give it a good thump".

Admittedly this has nothing to do with 'how much'! Other than to say, many of us buy the best kit our budget will afford and stress test it (occasionally to failure).

And 'how much' is perhaps best answered by that old chestnut 'where there's a will, there's a way'.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Leighton

I tried to get some interest a few years ago from the large Insurance Companies to adopt a product I called “Death Insurance” . Whereas Life Insurance pays out if you die before a certain age, Death Insurance pays out if you live beyond a certain age. You could then plan to spend all your savings by the age of say 70. If you happen to live beyond this then your “Death Insurance” paid out.

Can’t see why it didn’t catch on !!!

Should have approached some Tobacco Companies to see if they wanted to diversify

[s/v 'Faith']

Debt = Slavery.

Time waits for no man.

Good thread.

[chutzpuh]

wow. I know so many people that live on less, heck entire families! Living on a boat is so much cheaper. Or at least it was when I lived aboard. No offence, everyone has their lifestyle requirements.

[capt lar]

I fall into the group that believes you need as much as possible before you cut the docking lines. I should explain that I did it on the very cheap and had a great time but always wanted to go again without running out of cash. That was 30 years ago.
By what I read, most cruises are either in their 20's or their 60's. The fact is the middle years are, for many, spent chasing the money to get the house that is in the town that has better schools so you can educate your kids so they can get into a good college whick keeps you chasing the money so they can graduate and start chasing the money and all along the way you get taxed. It's a sweet system.
I am almost done and, while I love my kids and have enjoyed the fight most of the time, now I think I am close to getting my life back. For those of you who mention social security, let me give you a reality check. I have paid in 100K. If I file at 62 I get $1400/mo...at 66 I get $2000 and if I wait until 72 I get $2700.- It is important to remember that the average life expectancy in the US for males is, I believe, 71. Probably should not wait that long. If you assume 62 and do the math, that is the poorest return on investment known to man. Remember, too, they aren't done "fixing" the system. Governments tax and spend. If you want more, they take more. Anyone who is counting on Social Security might consider Vegas - the odds are probably better. Same goes for many corporations. I know too many who had retirements ruined by mismanagement and fraud. With all my kids, I am helping them set up IRA's (Roth) and making them understand that they will have only themselves to rely on when they come to retire. When I was in my 20s, I did not like lectures from guys in their 50s. Take this blurb for what it is - free information - and determine on your own if it is worth anything.

[maxingout]

Originally Posted by ssullivan

Dave: Thank you for that uplifting and true post. It has helped me more than you know, reminding me of goals that can easily be forgotten in the heat of the moment. Excellent. One of the all time best on here.

Any tips on those cheap destinations?

There are lots of AWSOME AND CHEAP destination in the world.

1. Turkey - At Finike, Turkey, you could stay in a first class marina for $3,000 a year. When not in the Marina, you could cruise the Truquoise Coast and anchor in hundreds of beautiful anchorages with crystal clear water.

2. Abu Tig Marina, Egypt - This marina is in the Red sea. It's a world class resort with the best sailboarding in the world every day of the year. It costs $150 per month to stay at Abu Tig. I wish I was there right now. It makes a great base for cruising the western side of the Red Sea.

3. Langkawi, Malaysia - You can stay at the nice Langkawi Yacht Club long term for a very reasonable price, and if you want to anchor out, there's a massive anchorage in the bay. The Island of Langkawi has world class anchorages and you could enjoy spending years there. I would like to spend more time there for sure.

4. Thailand - The out islands of Thailand are beautiful and they are cheap. These are the types of islands that you see in the James Bond films. Unforgetable anchorages and affordable.

5.The places that are affordable in the South Pacific are too numerous to mention.

One of the most expensive places in the world to own a yacht is the USA. The same is true for many Mediterranean destinations if you visit mainland western Europe.

As I said in a previous post, the average person in the world lives on $2 per day. I'm not talking about famine stricken areas of the world where there's malnutrition and kwasiorkor. I'm talking about thousands of islands in Water World all the way around the globe. As long as you stay away from the big cities, fancy restaurants, and don't fly in 747s, the world is a cheap place to live. IT'S NOT THE HIGH COST OF LIVING. IT'S THE COST OF LIVING HIGH THAT KEEPS PEOPLE AT THE DOCK RATHER THAN CRUISING THE SEVEN SEAS. It's cheaper out there if you can just stop living high.

And you know what, when you go to those places where people are living on $2 a day, you see plenty of people who are both fat and happy. Rice, fruit, and coconuts don't cost very much, and there's plenty to go around for everyone.

If you go cruising and try to take America with you on your yacht, you are going to have a hard time. All those complex systems will break down and you are going to spend tons of money fixing it in paradise.

Look, you buy a sailboat to go cruising and experience other cultures. If you have a simple diet and give up your high faluting ways, you can do it very cheaply. Buy a 32 to 35 foot yacht, renew the rigging, sails, and engine, and then LEAVE all that infrastructure behind. Simplify your life and enjoy an unemcumbered existence. That's what cruising used to be all about. Cruising wasn't about fashion statements and floating condominiums. It was a simple way of life that had simple pleasures.

Think about $2 per day for each person on board. Think about simple yachts without complicated systems. Ask yourself if you can survive without all that stuff in your life?

Simple yachts allow you to put your freedom chips into the cruising kitty rather than into your boat.

Cheers,

Dave
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[cat man do]

Originally Posted by maxingout

There are lots of AWSOME AND CHEAP destination in the world.

3. Langkawi, Malaysia - You can stay at the nice Langkawi Yacht Club long term for a very reasonable price, and if you want to anchor out, there's a massive anchorage in the bay. The Island of Langkawi has world class anchorages and you could enjoy spending years there. I would like to spend more time there for sure.

4. Thailand - The out islands of Thailand are beautiful and they are cheap. These are the types of islands that you see in the James Bond films. Unforgetable anchorages and affordable.

5.The places that are affordable in the South Pacific are too numerous to mention.

These are the spot's for me , that's for sure,In the order you posted, though i'd argue that New Caledonia is hideously expensive, though US dollars buy a bit more than OZ buck's.

Must be a French thing

Dave

[maxingout]

Originally Posted by cat man do

These are the spot's for me , that's for sure,In the order you posted, though i'd argue that New Caledonia is hideously expensive, though US dollars buy a bit more than OZ buck's.

Must be a French thing

Dave

I agree with you. We sailed twice to New Caledonia, and it was quite expensive if you stayed in the Marina in Noumea. We anchored out unless we were making repairs. I put two wind generators on while I was in Noumea, and they were expensive.

I always felt that Oz was an affordable cruising destination as well. We stayed at Lawries Marina in Mooloolaba for about $250 per month. Kawana waters was a great location and made a good base for exploring OZ by Land Rover. I have a 130 Defender Land Rover and made a 10,000 km outback trip while I was there. I have the Rover in storage in Kawana Waters, and I look forward to flying back to OZ to make a six month land trip there. That's my dream.

The Queensland coast has some great destinations and as long as you anchor out, it's affordable. We were always treated well with customs and immigration at Scarborough and Bundaberg, but things have changed in the past two years as they have cracked down on people who are entering into OZ.

I would like to have my boat back in OZ, but it's a bit of a hassle having to sail to New Caledonia every year or up to the Louisiades to make it possible to come back to OZ.

I guess those are the types of problems that a person should wish to have.

Cheers,

Dave
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[cat man do]

Definetly not Marina types, but the new owner of my last cat put us up on a berth for a couple of days before we ran away for my last month on my boat.

The only thing we could afford was fresh Bagguette's and Number 1 [beer].

What more could you want.

Luckily the Tazar [spanish mackeral] were all over anything shiny, so it was fish for Breakfast , lunch and dinner for a month.

I do miss those bowl's of coffee with fresh fruit from the market at the Marina though, seemed very exotic at the time.

Part of the reason for this new cat is that when/if I go back I wont have to get much in the way of grocery's from the casino as i'll be able to carry a fair bit of stuff.

We made the mistake of gutting the boat seeing as we were selling her on the last trip.

Caro was'nt happy about selling the boat to this guy so she was leaving him with nothing, and us as well.

Dave

[Connemara]

Well, I didn't say we NEEDED that much, just that we would probably have it. Nicer to have a cushion than not.

Connemara

[btrayfors]

There's really no answer for everyone. It's highly dependent on each cruising boat, it's crew, it's locale, and it's lifestyle.

AGE is very important. Younger folks generally have fewer health concerns, and lower costs for health care and drugs (I mean the prescription kind :-)

The BOAT is very important. Smaller is less expensive, but it has to be large enough for your situation. Generally, it you maintain your boat in good condition it will cost about 10-15% of overall value per year in maintenance...on average. Some years will be less, even much less. But, eventually, a major refit or problem will come along and the boat units will begin to be dispensed rather quickly.

The LOCALE is important, but not so much as life style. Hey, the BVI's (which I know very well) are one of the more expensive popular cruising grounds in the Eastern Caribbean. But, I can hang out on the hook in several locations for weeks on end, and can eat for relatively little. Or, I can tie up to expensive moorings ($20-25 per night) or enter expensive marinas, eat all meals ashore, and spend a bundle.

KNOWLEDGE, SKILLS, and EXPERIENCE are important. If you have these in adequate measure, you can avoid costly places, do most maintenance and repairs yourself, and generally maintain control of your cruising lifestyle without bouncing from one trauma to another. You'll also know how to equip and maintain your boat, and sail her so you don't constantly break expensive gear, even when the weather turns nasty. You'll also be able to pick up extra needed cash by working along the way, if needed.

WILL THAT CASH BE NEEDED? Nobody can answer that question. Unless you have investments which are yielding a princely sum in disposable income (say, $100K or more, without touching the principal), you're gonna have to watch SOMETHING, especially as you grow older and face unknowable and potentially catastrophic health and family financial situations.

So, if it's a trick question and really has no universal answer, what is one to do to prepare for the cruising life?

It's all been said before:

- make your decisions early
- work hard and put away as much as you can
- decide on a suitable boat for your getaway, equip her, sail her, and prepare her as best you can
- pick up as much knowledge, skills, and experience as possible along the way
- plan your getaway, then DO it.

Just one more thought: while acquiring a "project" boat and working on her for years is an attractive avenue for some folks, due to the belief that the investment will be relatively small initially, and one will come to "know" the boat intimately as work progresses over time, keep in mind that there's a BIG tradeoff here. If you spend all of your time for years working on your boat you are going to be foregoing all that time which might otherwise have been spent actually sailing and acquiring sailing and navigation skills which are crucial to the success of your intended cruising life. Many, many boats have come to grief soon after launching because their owners didn't have the requisite SAILING skills. If you simply must get involved in a project boat, be sure you find a way to spend a lot of time sailing on other peoples boats, even if it means extending your getaway date significantly.

The first few months will be the real test of How Much is Enough!

JMO,

Bill