Buying a used Catamaran and have some ??'s

[kkugley]

I'm praying that these economic problems will be overcome by this spring, 1. so I can sell my house, 2. so I can get a loan on a yacht, which now I think would be impossible.
For a US resident, where would the best place for me to buy a catamaran be? I'm looking at Leopard 40's and 47's in the $200-300k range. Is there a tax advantage to buy one in BVI or another country vs. buying one in Florida? I'm currently a Tennessee resident and plan on living/cruising this boat out of country for a few years. Anyone think the tax on buying a yacht will change dramatically as a result of the new president (increase if one gets elected decrease if the other does) starting in '09?
Thanks,
Kug

[Talbot]

Originally Posted by kkugley

I'm praying that these economic problems will be overcome by this spring, 1. so I can sell my house, 2. so I can get a loan on a yacht, which now I think would be impossible.

I love an enthusiastic optimist

Like you, I am waiting on a house sail, but that not only depends on the economic situation, but also on my ex getting off her butt and selling the place.

Believe me, the ecomomic uncertaintany pales into insignificance!

[44'cruisingcat]

South Africa seems a good place to buy with US $ at the moment.

[maxingout]

There are a couple of things you can do to minimize the tax impact of buying a yacht.

I purchased my first Caribbean sailboat in St. Thomas and registered it in St. Thomas at a friend's address. I paid a few dollars each year to update the registration for the three years that I had it in the Caribbean.

Years later, I did the deal on my catamaran in the Bahamas which meant that there were no taxes, but I had to create and maintain an offshore corporation that owns the yacht. Over time the costs of maintaining an offshore corporation mount up.

Since I had not lived in the USA for twenty years, and since I was going sailing around the world, it didn't make sense to purchase a boat in the USA and pay taxes in the USA on a boat that wasn't going to be in the USA anyway.

If you are headed offshore long-term, then it may make sense to do the deal offshore and register/document the vessel offshore as well. If you are going to be cruising for only a couple of years, then it probably doesn't matter that much what you do.

Living offshore longterm is looking better by the week. I lived on Exit Only for $500 to $1000 per month on my basic expenses. My Freedom Chips go a lot farther when my anchor is down in paradise.

[First Mate]

North Carolina, I keep hearing, does not.

Also, Rhode Island. Please correct me if I am wrong.

you could get an address one of those two places for a month if you are purchasing

[kkugley]

Originally Posted by Talbot

I love an enthusiastic optimist

Like you, I am waiting on a house sail, but that not only depends on the economic situation, but also on my ex getting off her butt and selling the place.

Believe me, the ecomomic uncertaintany pales into insignificance!

Ah, but I DO understand "the ex factor". I'm celebrating, as tonite, the house deed is souly in my name. The "big D" will be final next week. Life will be good

[SelkirkWind]

Originally Posted by First Mate

North Carolina, I keep hearing, does not.

Also, Rhode Island. Please correct me if I am wrong.

you could get an address one of those two places for a month if you are purchasing

Be careful here, there be dragons.......
Some states have no sales tax, but they have residency requirements. You have to have been there for a year, or you have to have been there on January 1st, or ..........

The real question is where are you planning to go and what your registry buys you. It is easy and relatively cheap for US boats to go places. Often other US flagged vessels have been there and the local customs officials won't necessarily be making it up as they go along.


If you are interested in a Leopard, the places to go are around the Moorings bases. Belize, Tortola, Abacos, St. Marteen, St. Lucia and St. Vincent. Tortola has the most boats.

[kkugley]

If you are interested in a Leopard, the places to go are around the Moorings bases. Belize, Tortola, Abacos, St. Marteen, St. Lucia and St. Vincent. Tortola has the most boats.[/quote]

I see that these countries do have a lot of Leopards. Is there any tax advantage for an American to buy in one of those countries over another or even versus the US that you know of?
Thanks

[kevingy]

I always wondered if the costs acquire a boat on a far-off island would outweigh the savings to be had. Considering airfare, hotel, food, and other expenses to get to where the boat is (probably more than one trip by the end of the process), stay for a while to look and close, and then move the boat home (assuming you're not just going to go from where the boat is).

[Sunspot Baby]

NC does have a sales tax 3% on boats I believe, but if you bring a documented boat in from out of state they don't seem to pursue you for sales taxes.

They do have a personal property tax on boats but if the boat is out of state on Jan 1 you don't have to pay. They may ask to see that you have paid taxes somewhere else. I figure my Bahamas cruising permit is the tax I pay.

Within the US, there are more used cats in Florida, primarily the Ft. Lauderdale area.

There are often yachts coming out of charter in BVI and other popular charter bases if you want an ex-charter boat. There are pros and cons and you can read some pretty strong opinions in this forum against charter boats, but I know several people who have them and they are OK.

George

[SelkirkWind]

Originally Posted by kkugley

I see that these countries do have a lot of Leopards. Is there any tax advantage for an American to buy in one of those countries over another or even versus the US that you know of?
Thanks

I disagree about buying charter boats. I think they can be a real value. For the most part, modern charter boats are designed for low maintenance, and they can be fairly easily restored. Don't take my word for it though, go talk to the folks on the Yahoo groups site, Leopard Owners Group.

[SurfNRG]

When I was shopping for a cat three plus years ago I flew down to the BVI's and checked out several ex-charter boats. After listening to the brokers talk about how they professionally maintain these ex-charter boats to a tee I noticed it started raining. I also noticed the vast majority of these used charter cats that were 4 sale were left open. Here it was raining buckets and the hatches on many of these boats were wide open. And the broker was peering out the window commenting how hard it was raining. No comments like, Hey, let's close those boats up. Hmmm.., It definitely answered my question as to why many of these cats smelled funky with mold as well as signs of worn upholstrey from the extended use, etc.. And the boat I was interested in ended up having the starboard side transmission removed not for the past week like the broker stated but for months. I'm sure you could find a good ex-charter but I'd be more apt in finding one through a private owner who had properly maintained the vessel on a regular basis. And it'll usually will have a lot less wear and tear both cosmetically and mechanically. Just my 2 cents from experience.

[Woods Designs]

If you were buying a used car would you a) buy an old taxi, b) buy an ex rental car, c) buy from "one careful lady owner"?

Richard Woods of Woods Designs

Woods Designs Sailing Catamarans

[Factor]

Really succinctly put Richard. Good guidance

[SelkirkWind]

Originally Posted by Woods Designs

If you were buying a used car would you a) buy an old taxi, b) buy an ex rental car, c) buy from "one careful lady owner"?

Richard has a point, only several hundred thousand people buy used rental cars every year!

The fact is you have three options with Cats:

1.) Build one, the main issues are cost and time. The positive, you may get the boat of your dreams with everything optimized (trade-offs) specifically for you.

2.) Buy one from a little old lady! Everyone loves this one, but the number of people actually able to find a gently used CAT is very small. Finding an awesome Cat like a newer Leopard almost impossible. The truth is that boats who sit and are not used often have more problems than ones that are used regularly.

3.) Buy a charter boat and refit her. Could be some significant cost here, but versus building, probably your best bet. The thing to do IMHO if you want a Leopard is to buy it from The Moorings. The trick is to buy a boat STILL in charter and then walk it through Moorings "phase out" with your own surveyor (You bet Moorings will do this!). Another possibility is buying a charter boat that is being "phased out" for other reasons. There was a boat in St. Lucia recently that phased out after less than a year in service. Remember, these boats are owned by people, not the Moorings. Owners can take the boat and sell it at anytime depending on their personal issues........ They probably get the best deal selling it through the Moorings broker, particularly if they are trading up to a larger boat.

read through the files at LeopardCat : Leopard Catamaran Owners Group