International Micron 66

[Hartleyg]

Hi Gents,

Two things - we've had Micron66 on our Tayana 48DS since we bought it, and we were getting 2 years easy in SF Bay (after three years it was definitely fading/failing). On the East Coast, we've had more slime & growth, but I suspect the freshwater exposure in the Cheapeake and the rivers of Maine/NH have something to do with it.

Our previous sailboat was a Gulfstar 50 ketch - NOT a "lightweight" boat by anyone's definition, and a short rig to boot. When we went to Hawaii in the 2000 Pacific Cup, we had her over 10 knots (GPS speed) on several occasions running with the spinnaker and big seas from behind, and the GPS log said we hit 12.5 at some point. Our current Tayana has a slightly longer waterline and ~8 knots is our usual limit, but we've had her over 10 knots (without significant current - Gulf Stream running doesn't count ).

Hartley
S/V Atsa

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Comanche is a 100ft Maxi which is capable of 11-13 knots or more which I’ve witnessed first hand when they passed by my boat (within 40ft) at the start of the Rolex series off Sardinia two years ago.

Maybe my “9 year old” eyes are beginning to weaken, but I find very few similarities (if any) between a 100ft Maxi and a Moody 54 cruiser. Maybe you can help me out?

Commanche AVERAGED 21 knots over an entire Atlantic Ocean crossing, and surfs at 40 knots. Hull speed only 13 knots BTW.

[puffcard]

The best part of surfing down a wave in 25kts of winds, is not exceeding hull speed. Its that you're not going the other way.

[robert sailor]

I guess I'm in Dockheads corner here, our Moody is by the same designer and with a decent breeze we can usually average close to 8 knots off the wind, takes a little surfing here and there but pretty close. His boat is 30% larger than ours so if we are doing 8 knots its pretty easy to see him doing 10 knots, not far fetched at all.

I do have a video showing our speeds sailing but its like 87MB and I dont have the smarts to be able to knock it down in size. R

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

I guess I'm in Dockheads corner here, our Moody is by the same designer and with a decent breeze we can usually average close to 8 knots off the wind, takes a little surfing here and there but pretty close. His boat is 30% larger than ours so if we are doing 8 knots its pretty easy to see him doing 10 knots, not far fetched at all.

I do have a video showing our speeds sailing but its like 87MB and I dont have the smarts to be able to knock it down in size. R

8 knots is a quantum leap from the 12 knots he claims to have averaged over a 30 mile distance with a .5 current working against him. We average 8-8.5 knots all the time with our hull speed of 9.2 knots, which is well within our reality-based ability.

Add some favorable 3-4 knot current into the mix, and I’m sure all Moodys can average 10 knots with or without carbon sails.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Commanche AVERAGED 21 knots over an entire Atlantic Ocean crossing, and surfs at 40 knots. Hull speed only 13 knots BTW.

Your Moody is not a 100ft Maxi...

So... “Where’s the beef?” or rather, similarities...

Or is it an optical delusion...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

8 knots is a quantum leap from the 12 knots he claims to have averaged over a 30 mile distance with a .5 current working against him. We average 8-8.5 knots all the time with our hull speed of 9.2 knots, which is well within our reality-based ability.

Add some favorable 3-4 knot current into the mix, and I’m sure all Moodys can average 10 knots with or without carbon sails.

You even need help with math, Ken

30 miles in 2:45 is 10.9 knots. With a little adverse current, it took boat speed of something over 11 knots, but certainly not 12. Just because you've never done it on your boat, doesn't mean it's impossible or even hard to do -- many boats can sail for hours or days at a time above their theoretical hull speed. You boat is very different from mine, and judging by your video, you are much more cautious than I am in strong wind (which is not at all a bad thing). Come sailing with me sometime, and I'll show you. With the new sails, I can get to 10 knots in a much wider range of conditions, than with the old ones -- about 20 knots of true wind is enough, on a close reach.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

You even need help with math, Ken

30 miles in 2:45 is 10.9 knots. With a little adverse current, it took boat speed of something over 11 knots, but certainly not 12. Just because you've never done it on your boat, doesn't mean it's impossible or even hard to do -- many boats can sail for hours or days at a time above their theoretical hull speed. You boat is very different from mine, and judging by your video, you are much more cautious than I am in strong wind (which is not at all a bad thing). Come sailing with me sometime, and I'll show you. With the new sails, I can get to 10 knots in a much wider range of conditions, than with the old ones -- about 20 knots of true wind is enough, on a close reach.

You conveniently omitted the “.5 knot” current out of your equation... You stated that you covered the 30 miles “against a half knot of tide.”

Is your boat equipped with a “warp drive”? Maybe I should get one.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

You conveniently omitted the “.5 knot” current out of your equation... You stated that you covered the 30 miles “against a half knot of tide.”

Is your boat equipped with a “warp drive”? Maybe I should get one.

No, I did not. 10.9 knots over ground, 11.4 through the water. Not 12.

You don't need a warp drive, Ken -- you just need a faster boat

[mikereed100]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

When we monitor speed on our boat, it’s via 2-3 gps dependent gadgets, never the hull speedo which can be way off.

We run GPS and transducer speedos side by side. The more accurate readout, and the one I trust, is whichever is reading highest at the time.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by mikereed100

We run GPS and transducer speedos side by side. The more accurate readout, and the one I trust, is whichever is reading highest at the time.

It would seem that you’re not alone ...

[mikereed100]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Surfing is not the same at all as planing. Surfing a displacement hull boat entails using the wave action to carry the boat along -- to get the boat out of the trough and let it build up momentum...., I think the main thing which is going on is that the waves are moving faster than the boat is, so it means we are never going uphill up a wave. The sea state prevents you from ever having to climb your own bow wave, so kind of releases you from hull speed altogether.
.

Great explanation. FWIW I often surfed at 8-9 knots on my Catalina 30 with a theoretical hull speed of less than 7 knots.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

No, I did not. 10.9 knots over ground, 11.4 through the water. Not 12.

You don't need a warp drive, Ken -- you just need a faster boat

On post #37 you calculated 10.9 knots, and now we’re up to 11.4kts... on our way back up to 12-13 knots like Comanche as in post #3.

Maybe it’s the Micron 66.

[kenbo]

If you have used Micron 66 and like the performance but not the price. Look at Blue Water Marine commercial paint line. I've used both BWM Marine SPC 99 and Micron 66 in the same waters and found no appreciable performance difference...at less than 50% the cost. They are essentially the same paint with slightly different polymer substrates, both are self polishing.

No interest in either company just letting you know my real world results.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by kenbo

If you have used Micron 66 and like the performance but not the price. Look at Blue Water Marine commercial paint line. I've used both BWM Marine SPC 99 and Micron 66 in the same waters and found no appreciable performance difference...at less than 50% the cost. They are essentially the same paint with slightly different polymer substrates, both are self polishing.

No interest in either company just letting you know my real world results.

Now here is info we can all use. Thanks