Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Its ridiculous to compare Churchill and Chamberlain, both had failures in judgement some extraordinarily large.


dave

Probably the Chamberlane/Churchill is a poor comparison bu natraps. Maybe they both had their bad points but with Chamberlane, all of the UK would be speaking German now.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by SailingwithSoul

[Piracy] is a worldwide problem that needs a global response. A response that is academically and theoretically simple, but practically impossible, especially given the geopolitical and economic paradigm we live in today.

Well put.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Probably the Chamberlane/Churchill is a poor comparison bu natraps. Maybe they both had their bad points but with Chamberlane, all of the UK would be speaking German now.

Just as the way the rambo approach is "feted" by the those that don't really know anything, Equally It might surprise you that

Chamberlain agreed the Munich accord ,and it was broadly popular in the UK at the time. ( he was mobbed when he returned from Munich)

However he had no illusions as to how to deal with the increasingly aggressive Germany at the time

It is perfectly evident now that force is the only argument Germany understands and that "collective security" cannot offer any prospect of preventing such events until it can show a visible force of overwhelming strength backed by the determination to use it. ... Heaven knows I don't want to get back to alliances but if Germany continues to behave as she has done lately she may drive us to it( Chamberlain 1938

He lead the UK into the war after Poland was attached. He resigned because he couldn't not get agreement on a "national " government at the time . He remained on as an important part of Churchills war cabinet.

Was he mislead by Hitler, of course, most were in 1938, including the USA ( TIME had Hitler as the man of the year in 1938!!!!)

It was convient for Churchill to blame Chamberlain, the two were political rivals and Chamberlains untimely death in 1940 allowed Churchills allegations to go unchallenged. ( Churchill was an unashamed self promoter)

IN summary to suggest that Chamberlain had he remained in power would not have seen the threat Germany posed, nor did he shirk from building up Britain's military resources does not bear out any thoughtful inspection.

However of course just like "rambo" types, fact never enter the equation anyway.


dave

[natraps116]

Goboatingnow

I think you've made your point.

When attacked, surrender and hope that your ransomed is paid.


Sent from my SM-T700 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Lake-Effect]

First, my joke:


Funny how the 'pirate' meme is all OK when it comes to cocktails at anchor or Jimmy Buffett songs, but real piracy...

Semi-serious comment - the "business" thing:

If I unleash the most powerful "bomb" in the world they will think twice. That bomb is called the almighty dollar.

You gotta be kidding about this. Business is the reason we in the west tolerate, overlook and support tyrants, dictators and despots... or choose to act when some misbehave. Need I post pictures of Rummy shaking hands with Saddam? Why did the west respond to the annexation of Kuwait but not the massive genocide in Rwanda? (hint - your car doesn't run on Tutsis or Hutus). The west happily inhaled Libyan oil during Gaddafi's reign. We are now deeply intertwined commercially with one of the world's biggest communist dictatorships - China (and that's not 100% a bad thing)

The point is that the plight of a tiny handful of wealthy senior cruising naifs will not change politics or behaviours.

My own approach - there's so much great cruising in my own backyard, and in known safer areas, that I'll never run out of great new places that are also safe. In my view there's simply no point to endangering myself and others by venturing unprepared into known trouble-spots.

We just came back from the wilds of Michigan, and their quaint encampments on the western shores of Lake St Clair. Fascinating. (...Michiganders rock. Thanks all)

[hellosailor]

Pirates?
Wasn't it Mr. Jefferson who got so po'd at pirates, that he went and funded a Navy and then blew them to hell for a while to get rid of the nuisance?

Stuff the pledge, if you're not out hunting them down proactively, you're supporting and condoning piracy.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by natraps116

Goboatingnow

I think you've made your point.

When attacked, surrender and hope that your ransomed is paid.


Sent from my SM-T700 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

No, You miss my point, if you decide to fight, ensure you have a more then even chance of coming out ahead. If so absolutely, fight.

Otherwise you must achieve success by other means.

There is a saying " don't bring a knife to a gunfight", personally I subscribe to "bring a bazooka to a gunfight " !.

What is depressing is to hear armchair generals urge aggression as a way to solve issues, even though they really have no idea of the circumstances or the success of such a proposal.

So to bring this back to piracy, I certainly have no interest in challenging people wielding automatic weapons, unless I have better or more expert firepower to bear.

Hence the nonsense of this supposed pledge.

dave

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

... Stuff the pledge, if you're not out hunting them down proactively, you're supporting and condoning piracy.

We could curtail piracy big time but our warriors are busy checking Y valves. I can't even get the GF to read the directions for operating the compost head, she's not interested in any pledge other than Pledge furniture polish.

Blue Crab Pledge

I pledge to stay out of harm's way if I can and go down shooting if I cannot. If I have time, I'll call the Chamber of Commerce for ye.

I swear I thought this was a joke thread. I skipped pages 2-5. Hope I didn't miss a good one!

[Celestialsailor]

Actually I like..."Never take a one legged man to an ass kicking contest".
I'll agree, there are the armchair generals here...as well as the armchair intellectuals.

[boatman61]

***** Happens... live with it or stay at home..
Iraqi's took a pledge.. considered anti-American..
Same with the IRA.. anti British..
Same with the Colonies.. anti British..
Todays terrorist is tomorrows heroic freedom fighter/politician.. Golda Meyer.. Gerry Adams... Che Guevara blah blah blah..
Bludi NIMBY's are all the same...

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Pirates?
Wasn't it Mr. Jefferson who got so po'd at pirates, that he went and funded a Navy and then blew them to hell for a while to get rid of the nuisance?

Stuff the pledge, if you're not out hunting them down proactively, you're supporting and condoning piracy.

While That might be the common view in the USA, The threat of the Barbary pirates were ultimately removed by the British and French Navies, The USA, a young nation with a few ships, while it made good "press", did not in fact have the resources to suppress such a maritime nation that Morocco was

Bizarrely Morocco was one of the first states to recognise the new USA.

By and large, piracy is a very difficult activity to remove as its tends to have an economic basis. Often trade agreements, were more successful in suppressing pirates then any other methods

Ultimately it required the French invasion of Algeria in 1830 to finally stamp out piracy ( The old boots on the ground thing again!!)

dave

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by boatman61

***** Happens... live with it or stay at home..
Iraqi's took a pledge.. considered anti-American..
Same with the IRA.. anti British..
Same with the Colonies.. anti British..
Todays terrorist is tomorrows heroic freedom fighter/politician.. Golda Meyer.. Gerry Adams... Che Guevara blah blah blah..
Bludi NIMBY's are all the same...

Opps.. forgot that ass kisser of the 'Frenchies' John Paul Jones...

[Pelagic]

I have no problem with pbmaise's pledge.
It makes a committed statement that all the criminals will get... is what they catch.

It puts the risk/reward quotient into a more level playing field of being able to directly negotiate and accommodate a donation to the "freedom fund" directly... as Dan did.

Keeping it friendly, happy and hopefully non lethal.

So let me be the first on here to take that pledge!

[John Drake]

In May 2001, Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th and current Dalai Lama, made a three-day visit to Portland, Oregon, during which he gave a talk to 7,600 area high school students.

As reported by the Seattle Times, during that talk the Dalai Lama responded to a question posed by a student about how to react to a potential school shooter by stating that it would "be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun."

I pledge to put maximum ordnance on target.

I pledge to expend every piece of ammunition, for the record, or until I have broken the will of my adversary to fight.

That is not being "Rambo," that is being realistic. Either don't go where bad guys are (my personal preference), or, if you do, go being prepared to defend yourself. And, if you prepare to defend yourself, prepare as if you want to win (have the MAG standing behind you .

[and if you want to win, some advice: zero an AR at 50 yards, this gives you the maximum range to shoot without holdover. Or use an M1A, with a good scope and keep yourself outside your adversary's weapon's envelope]

My best to all

[ArtM]

Am I the only who cannot make heads or tails of this pledge?

I understood Ex-Calif's pledge.

It's not that I disagree with it, I just cannot make any sense of it.