Rethinking attitudes towards fire suppression

[Jammer]

Prior to the mid-20th century there was a self-help culture around fire suppression -- in the event of a fire, the owners and occupants of the affected structure were under a societal expectation to make an effort to extinguish the fire. Fire insurance was expensive and did not pay out reliably, and fire departments were slower to respond and less effective at stopping loss of life and property.


This needlepoint, showing some heat damage, was one of the few items removed from a burning house by my relatives in the early 1900s. Like the practice of fighting fires, the practice of removing valuable items from a burning structure was discouraged during the era of professionalization of firefighting in the post-WWII era.


In 2019, the most recent year for which complete statistics are available, there were 3,704 deaths due to fire, and property losses totaling $14.8 billion. (source: https://www.usfa.fema.gov/data/statistics/) Generally, deaths declined due to improvements in the safety of electrical and heating systems, and a decline in cigarette smoking, through 2012, and have increased since then due to the decline in use of fire retardant materials for environmental/health reasons and the increased use of composite and manufactured wood structural components in housing. From 1920 through 2012 there was a more or less linear decline from the 1920 figure of 9300 deaths by fire.


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[Jammer]

Though I am unable to find any studies or evidence showing a causal relationship, the statistics support the idea that the "evacuate rather than fight" approach taught starting in elementary schools and reinforced later has been successful in reducing deaths and injuries of residents, workers, and bystanders who witness a fire.


So central is the doctrine of professionalization of firefighting that efforts to encourage adoption of residential fire sprinklers have been undermined by fire departments in many jurisdictions, despite clear evidence that they save lives and lead to a sufficient reduction in property damage that, on an actuarial basis, they pay for themselves over the life of the structure where they are installed. Instead, emphasis remains on the use of smoke detectors, evacuation, and the summoning of professional help.


We bring the attitude that regular people like us cannot suppress fires to our lives aboard, and we do so at our own peril as well as that of our vessels, neighboring craft, and the environment.


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[Jammer]

Throughout history and to this day, water has been and remains the most widely used means of extinguishing fires. As recently as the 1970s most buildings in the USA were equipped with standpipes and fire hoses intended for use by occupants of the buildings to extinguish fires. The automatic fire sprinkler, invented in 1881, was widely adopted after 602 people died in the Iriquois Theater fire in 1902; these systems almost invariably used water as the extinguishing agent. Water remains in use for fire suppression on naval and commercial vessels.

A hose supplied by a pump is the best means of delivering water for fire suppression whether aboard or on land. 2 gallon pressurized water fire extinguishers are available but are bulky and have the advantage of being able to be deployed quickly. Often they are available inexpensively second hand. They can be partially filled with antifreeze for use in environments where temperatures may be below 32 degrees F.

2 gallon water extinguishers with spray mist nozzles and a distilled water fill are shorter range but are more effective, and are safe on electrical fires.

Foam extinguishers are available that use a surfactant and a protein additive to create a foam blanket which is effective on gasoline, diesel, and other flammable liquids.

Here are two water extinguishers around my house and garage that I purchase used and have hydro tested, charged, and certified by my local fire extinguisher guy. It's just water and 90 PSI compressed air, so you can train with these by putting out a campfire or whatever, and then recharge them yourself. Also shown for size comparison is a 10 pound ABC dry chemical extinguisher.

[Jammer]

Even at home I believe that the consequences of a fire go beyond the risk of injury and death. Anyone who has lived through a house fire can tell you that even with insurance, the financial losses can be life-changing, personal daily involvement in the recovery and rebuilding process can last up to a year, and the lost sense of security and loss of irreplaceable mementos and last a lifetime.


My wife lived through a house fire, caused by a young person playing with candles, before we were married. My parents lived through a house fire caused by lightning. No one was hurt in these fires, but I've seen the devastation first hand.


We have various fire extinguishers scattered around the house and garage with the larger ones in the garage reflecting the fact that I use oxyacetylene welding and cutting equipment there which elevates the risk.


Pictured are a 5# CO2 extinguisher we have in our kitchen for cooking fires, a 10# CO2 extinguisher in the garage as the first line of defense against welding-related fires, and a 20# dry chemical extinguisher also in the garage, for when all else fails.


The CO2 extinguishers cost $10 each at an auction and had to be hydro tested and filled. The dry chemical extinguisher was one I purchased new. In the house, we have 10# dry chemical extinguishers on every floor (see photo upthread).

[Jammer]

One of the key points I want to make is that the little disposable 2.5# abc fire extinguishers that people (including me) have on their boats for compliance reasons are so small that they aren't much use. Try using an older one once, outdoors, on a campfire or something, and see how it goes, and draw your own conclusions. The other thing to keep in mind is that, to a varying extent depending on the particular dry chemical agent in use, cleanup from discharge of one of these in an enclosed space is either impossible or an all-day job with the shop vac. So in many cases you're better off reaching for the teakettle or the hose.

A couple of months ago we had a fire onboard in our Origo stove, which was affected by a downdraft from the galley portlight under that day's particular wind conditions. This had caused the flames to be pushed downward into the stove, melting the plastic controls so that the burner could not be readily shut off. We used the teakettle, problem solved.


The 2.5# "compliance" extinguishers are meant to extinguish a small puddle of gasoline or oil, or an overheated frypan in the galley, or perhaps an engine fire that is caught very early.

[Jammer]

So, recommendations.


On my present boat, we have compliance fire extinguishers that, while accessible, we will probably never use. I brief new crew on their locations and then point out that water works better in all cases we are likely to encounter. We have a tea kettle, we have hand pumps and coffee cups. Those are more effective than the compliance extinguishers. Really.


A lack of sufficient space on a 26' boat and my risk assessment for a boat that has no propane system, no shore power, and only an outboard motor has led to this.


On a larger vessel I would recommend getting the largest dry chemical extinguishers that will fit the space. When I had RVs we upgraded to 5# dry chemical and on one of them had a 2 gallon water extinguisher on a bracket outside on the hitch. 10# is better than 5# if you have room and if you and your crew can handle the size and weight.



On a boat, if you care about the extinguisher actually performing in an emergency, get a Purple-K fill (potassium bicarbonate) instead the standard sodium bicarbonate (less than half as effective) or monoammonium phosphate (particularly messy and still not as effective as Purple-K on most fires). The only disadvantage is the slightly higher cost.


Purple-K, for its size and weight, is going to be the most effective thing you can use on fires that can't be extinguished with water, such as gasoline, diesel, acetone and other solvents, and hot oil and grease in cooking fires.



I would recommend having water available. Think about setting up your washdown pump and plumbing with a fire emergency in mind. Have a hose and nozzle stowed in an accessible place for quick deployment and a quick and easy way to turn on the pump. Think about a quick connect for the hose if you don't leave it attached in the laz or something.


I think fire blankets are a good thing, even though they are not widely used in the USA and are difficult to find here. Grainger has them, as do industrial safety and first aid suppliers.


Foam extinguishers are currently unavailable due to environmental safety concerns regarding the foaming agent previously in widespread use. Reformulated foam is supposed to come on the market in the next year or so at which point foam extinguishers would once again be a prudent choice for larger boats that have room as they are highly effective on all fires and are not as messy as dry chemical.



It's really helpful to have put out a fire with a fire extinguisher before you have to use one in an emergency. Local fire departments sometimes offer training, or you can put out your next campfire.

[Jammer]

I know this is a lot of text and hope it is helpful.


My closing message is one of mindset and attitude. Aboard we have to be self-sufficient to a greater degree than on land, We should leave behind the well-intentioned messages to escape from fires rather than fight them. We should be prepared in terms of equipment and skills to extinguish fires before they grow for reasons of safety, to reduce the risk of life-altering property loss, to reduce the potential for damage to boats and property belonging to others, and to reduce our impact on the marine environment.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Jammer

I know this is a lot of text and hope it is helpful.


My closing message is one of mindset and attitude. Aboard we have to be self-sufficient to a greater degree than on land, We should leave behind the well-intentioned messages to escape from fires rather than fight them. We should be prepared in terms of equipment and skills to extinguish fires before they grow for reasons of safety, to reduce the risk of life-altering property loss, to reduce the potential for damage to boats and property belonging to others, and to reduce our impact on the marine environment.

It’s very difficult in a GRP boat to fight any sort of significant fire. Two mobo boats I know of had oil leaks catch fire from the turbo casing , by the time the smoke was detected the fire was unmanageable

Fire fighting is a professional skill, requiring significant levels of appropriate equipment.

Mis placed comments re the past are really irrelevant.

By all means deal with small fires but the key thing is human life is far more important then possessions. Saving possessions by risking life is a very stupid trade off. Last time i looked a human life couldn’t be ordered from Amazon

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

It’s very difficult in a GRP boat to fight any sort of significant fire. Two mobo boats I know of had oil leaks catch fire from the turbo casing , by the time the smoke was detected the fire was unmanageable

Fire fighting is a professional skill, requiring significant levels of appropriate equipment.

Mis placed comments re the past are really irrelevant.

By all means deal with small fires but the key thing is human life is far more important then possessions. Saving possessions by risking life is a very stupid trade off. Last time i looked a human life couldn’t be ordered from Amazon

This is key. Having the right equipment is good, but you have to know when it won't be enough and it's time to bail out. And if you're fighting a fire, make sure you have a clean exit path if things get worse.

Ideally, for engine rooms and spaces with electrical equipment, a boat would have a system similar to airplane cargo fire supression. Auto and manual dump, clean agent, 2 tanks. If the system dumps, all ventilation is shut down, the first tank dumps immediately. Then the second tank slowly releases over the next 15 - 20 minutes to keep extinguishing agent concentration high enough while things cool down to avoid a reflash.

[steve77]

Originally Posted by Jammer

I think fire blankets are a good thing, even though they are not widely used in the USA and are difficult to find here. Grainger has them, as do industrial safety and first aid suppliers.

Fire blankets do seem to be more common in Europe, but they are easy to buy in the US. We bought ours from Defender.

https://www.defender.com/search.html...fire%20blanket

Good post, thanks.

Cheers!

Steve

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

... Last time i looked a human life couldn’t be ordered from Amazon

And professional fire fighting assistance is not available offshore. I remember the time I smelled smoke out in the Atlantic. It gets you blood pumping. Your options are:

• Fight. Incipient only, of course. Many fires are galley or small electrical.
• Swim. Not an option, PFD won't help.
• Get in a raft or tender if you have one. Hope the weather stays nice. You're going to be in the raft for a while, which is not very safe.
• Prevention. The only good option.

I'm just sayin' it can be situation dependent. It is not a house fire, where you can run out in the front yard and maybe talk to the neighbors. You need plans.

[Frankly]

A few years back one of the European Yacht Publications did some testing on discharging a dry chemical extinguisher below on an average size sail yacht. BL fire or no fire the environment is not habitable in a matter of seconds from the extinguisher. One shot and done.

After reading that I installed a T, ball valve, and short hose in my mid bilge compartment connected to my anchor washdown pump (it get tested daily). Spraying sea water around in my yacht not a happy idea but consider the alternative. I test the FF system when we are in a freshwater environment spraying it out an open port.

Also added a similar set up in my house laundry room connected to the water supply (well in our case). The location and short hose will easily reach the kitchen and laundry room equipment (test it with a bucket once a year). Don't want to get to close to the likely fire source.

Also have a collection of DC extinguishers at both locations and an array of smoke detectors (one in every room and two in my equipment room).


Frankly

[Franziska]

Apart from extinguishers we have a powerful portable 12v pump.
Drop the suction line over board and you have a strong fire pump.
Drop it in the bilge and you have a powerful bilge pump.

On a cat we have the batteries on the bridge deck close to the entrance, so à good chance to still have power in both cases.

If someone has inboard engines an engine driven pump could help too.

If you go offshore you absolutely should have some fire fighting skills and, for the worst case, a life raft.

Not fighting the fire is no option in this case....

[C420sailor]

100% situation dependent.

If I’m in the middle of a very large body of water, I’m not rushing to get into my raft. I’m going to fight that fire as aggressively as possible without painting myself into a corner. I’d rather be waiting for rescue in a half burned out shell of a yacht than in a life raft at sea.

Install detectors, have plenty of extinguishers of adequate size and type. Consider escape hoods. Plan your egress.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Frankly

Also added a similar set up in my house laundry room connected to the water supply (well in our case). The location and short hose will easily reach the kitchen...

Perhaps you already know this, but in case others don't...

A kitchen fire that is being fueled by oil or grease is going to be made WORSE by spraying it with water.