KTI EPIRB

[hellosailor]

As ACR sadly proved some years ago, it is possible to build and sell high-end marine EPIRBs with a "self test" function that actually light up and confirm the self-test is 100% good and operational, while the unit cannot in fact transmit at all. Yes, there was a recall over those. And at the time, they weren't cheap units, either.

No acknowledgement, no verification, no reply? No confidence. Even when using "the best of butter" as the Mad Hatter said.

[Nikki S]

I am an Australian who will be sailing in Europe, Scandinavia, Atlantic, Caribbean and the Pacific over the next 5 years.
I am wondering whether I have to have our epirb registered in Australia with AMSA, or whether you need to register it in your vicinity - eg we are starting in France, so should I just get a European one to start with?

I rang AMSA and the lady didn't seem to know......

Our boat has to be registered in Australia, as far as I know, as we are not French citizens so cannot keep the French registration.

Is it better to buy one in Australia before I fly to France, or better to get an Australian one shipped to France, or buy one there? (Will I have trouble with airport customs?)

Please share your experience with me

[Takamoana]

Originally Posted by Nikki S

I am an Australian who will be sailing in Europe, Scandinavia, Atlantic, Caribbean and the Pacific over the next 5 years.
I am wondering whether I have to have our epirb registered in Australia with AMSA, or whether you need to register it in your vicinity - eg we are starting in France, so should I just get a European one to start with?

I rang AMSA and the lady didn't seem to know......

Our boat has to be registered in Australia, as far as I know, as we are not French citizens so cannot keep the French registration.

Is it better to buy one in Australia before I fly to France, or better to get an Australian one shipped to France, or buy one there? (Will I have trouble with airport customs?)

Please share your experience with me

Hi Nikki,
We picked up our boat in France about 4 years ago, the best option, for us, was to buy in Australia and take it with us. There were no problems with carrying it in our baggage and we claimed the GST back when we left. It is a simple process to register the EPIRB on the AMSA website and nominate your emergency contacts. If you are nominating emergency contacts in Australia and registering the boat there, I would recommend an EPIRB coded for Australia as it will simplify and expedite any search and rescue activity.
Good luck with the new boat, if you have only half as much fun as we are having you will love it.
Fair winds,
Gary

[monte]

buy the ebirb in Aus and take it with you. Much cheaper and easier plus you can sort out the registration before you leave, recieve the registration sticker etc. We have the safelink with GPS which seems fine at around $270 with 10yr battery life. We recently had it returned to us from a friend who used it to cross the Atlantic and French customs tried to make us pay 160 EU VAT + Duty for having our used epirb returned, even though it was marked Yacht in Transit..

[Nikki S]

Thanks Monte and
Thanks Takamoana,

We haven't finalised the sale and subsequent registration of the boat in Australia yet. Do you know if that will have to happen before the registering the epirb with AMSA?

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Nikki S

Thanks Monte and
Thanks Takamoana,

We haven't finalised the sale and subsequent registration of the boat in Australia yet. Do you know if that will have to happen before the registering the epirb with AMSA?

It shouldn't matter IIRC. AFAIK, you don't even have to have a boat of any sort to register a beacon.

The details of your vessel can be updated online by yourself at a later date.

Just jump on line and have a look at the on-line registration form

[hellosailor]

In my limited understanding of the ITU regulations, which would be the source for all national regulations, the EPIRB should be registered to the sovereign flag nation of the vessel. Before you take possession of the boat and cast off, it will be Australian flagged? Then you go with an Australian EPIRB registration, and the simplest (and perhaps only practical) way to do that is to buy it in Oz before you leave, and defer registration until you take title to the boat. (Rashly assuming you can register the EPIRB by email, fax, or paper mail after you buy it, rather than on the spot.)

You might want to contact the manufacturer of the unit you are interested in buying and check with them, since whatever they think, right or wrong, could affect any reprogramming, etc., that the unit might need. Easier to check that too.

[eastlands]

This typically retails for AU$250 but can also be supplied with an international MMSI programmed in at AU$317. You might also get a further 5% discount is you are willing to join a mailing list. (Search SkippersMate)
Not sure how much international postage is but within Australia delivery is included.
I am planning to get one for my UK registered boat.

[Orchidius]

I had a trip planned to Australia, so international shipping wasn't required (would've been a lot). I did get a unit with my international MMSI for 317$ just as you said. Didn't realize the 5% discount option was there...

Anyway, it looks good, hope I never have to use it...

[vientoman]

Forgive me if I am posting this in the wrong place but for sailing a 44ft cat down the west coast (US), Is there an excepted or most commonly used ePirb. I'm looking at the ACR 2844 Global Fix Pro Cat II EPIRB.....Should I click "Buy Now".



Thanks

[leftbrainstuff]

Originally Posted by Orchidius

Hey there,

I'm looking into buying the following EPIRB:

Safety Alert SA1G | KTI

It looks really, really great on paper. 10 year battery life, 10 year warranty, Australian made, compact, interestingly priced,...

The one thing missing are ISO/SOLAS/CE/wheelmark/... certifications. I emailed them and they told me they don't have any atm, but are looking into the requirements to get them later down the line.

What's your thought? Does anybody have any experience with the company and/or their products?

Many thanks!

Is it a boat epirb or a persinal locator beacon?

Not having the certification marks is a red flag for a safety critical item. Unless they can provide evidence or independent test results i'd be asking why not.
The claim they might look into them later is also a red flag. Reengineering to meet certification minimum requirements is a common mistake for many nieve product developers.

If they have a wealth of empirical evidence of proven performance in the field I might be interested. (By this I mean greater than 10 years based on the battery life stated)

Australia has some spurious loopholes which allow a vendor to claim performance without actually proving it. Section 52 of the trade practices act 'prohibits deceptive or misleading practice' but there are plenty of ways to avoid enforcement.

Looking for the cheapest epirb option is selection criteria we dont even mention when looking at safety critical systems. We only consider performance and durability.

The extra cost for a non Aus MMSI is also a furphy. Perhaps its an admin fee...

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff

Is it a boat epirb or a persinal locator beacon?

Not having the certification marks is a red flag for a safety critical item. Unless they can provide evidence or independent test results i'd be asking why not.
The claim they might look into them later is also a red flag. Reengineering to meet certification minimum requirements is a common mistake for many nieve product developers.

If they have a wealth of empirical evidence of proven performance in the field I might be interested. (By this I mean greater than 10 years based on the battery life stated)

Australia has some spurious loopholes which allow a vendor to claim performance without actually proving it. Section 52 of the trade practices act 'prohibits deceptive or misleading practice' but there are plenty of ways to avoid enforcement.

Looking for the cheapest epirb option is selection criteria we dont even mention when looking at safety critical systems. We only consider performance and durability.

The extra cost for a non Aus MMSI is also a furphy. Perhaps its an admin fee...

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Hmm… let's look at the other side of the coin!

The SA1G is an EPIRB; the KTI PLB is known as the the SA2G (with the G designator in both cases meaning for GPS embedded).

These units are built to the COSPAS-SARSAT C/S T.001 standards as well as the Australian and New Zealand standard AS/NZS 4280. The COSPAS-SARSAT specification is the overarching standard for all 406 locator beacons and the Oz standard is fairly encompassing. To suggest that an Australian Manufacturer who manufacturers in Australia and supplies to AMSA and DOD would not meet their obligations to these standards is a bit left field IMO (yea, pun slightly intended ).

As for the lack of the EU and SOLAS accreditation, I think this is a non-issue. These units are being manufactured for the Australian recreational market and such accreditation is non-revelant yet expensive to obtain so why would they bother (at this stage). The EU/SOLAS requirements will probably be the same or almost the same as what they already have but would require a lot of (expensive) documentation hoops to be jumped through for very little gain.

I agree the additional fee for for non Aus MMSI programming is probably an admin fee. They have to pull a unit form the assembly line (or stock) and manually programme it so some fee seems reasonable, especially as this is probably a rare instance.

These units have a few unique features (AFAIK) and these are probably driven by the SAR conditions in this part of the world where SAR assets can sometimes be quite distant (both physically and in time).

Transmit time is 3 days rather than the COSPAS-SARSAT requirement of 2 days and the GPS co-ordinates transmit period of every 5 five minutes for the full 3 days is probably the best there is. Some manufacturers in the early days of GPS embedded EPRIBs only transmitted the co-co-ordinates once and many only transmit the GPS data for 24 hours (with a 20 or 30 minute period) and shut down the GPS aspects to maintain battery life. I have not been able to source any GPS data requirements contained in the COSPAS-SARSAT documentation but perhaps other's may know more on this aspect.

[goboatingnow]

Note most leisure Epirbs in Europe are NOT SOLAS approved either. They are CE or wheel marked as both of these are capable of self certification.

So I would t worry about that certification at all.

GPS based Epirbs. Are subjected to the same specs as non gps. The location is transmitted in every beacon data message.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Note most leisure Epirbs in Europe are NOT SOLAS approved either. They are CE or wheel marked as both of these are capable of self certification.

So I would t worry about that certification at all.

GPS based Epirbs. Are subjected to the same specs as non gps. The location is transmitted in every beacon data message.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

While the location data maybe (or is?) transmitted with every bust of 406 carrier (i.e. approximately every minute), the updating of that data from the GPS engine is not carried out at the same interval.

For instance, the KTI unit updates the data every 5 minutes and then transmits the same location data for every transmission until the next update (5 minutes later). At least that is what I understand their process to be.

Some other manufacturers only update every 20 minutes or so and in some cases only once i.e. the first positional fix after turn on and then the GPS engine s switched off. Other units turn the GPS engine off after 24 hours (AFAIK).

This is possibly the least understood fine detail of the whole COSPAS-SARSAT system - probably because it was never considered in the early stages of development of the 406 system and thus never hammered down in the original specifications. Embedded GPS beacons are a relative newcomer to this system.

Dave, from many of your previous posts, you are apparently across a lot of certification / specification documentation for SOLAS items. Can you (or your colleagues) post (or point me towards) some hard detail of how often positional data has to be updated. I have never been able to find this finer detail and have had to rely often sketchy information from second hand sources, word of mouth and in the worst cases, marketing information ().

It seems that the manufacturer can decide for himself how long he powers up the GPS engine and when and thus the age of the positional data can vary considerably between manufacturers.

This may not be a problem in Europe and North America where SAR assets are often close to hand but real time updates (say 5 minutes in the KTI example) would be a considerable advantage downunder (IMO) in determining drift rates etc should the beacon stop transmitting for whatever reason before the distressed person is located.