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HopCar · 28-05-2011, 10:03

If an EPIRB/PLB is properly registered and it triggers by accident in a marina, the Coast Guard doesn't have to go looking for it. They pick up the phone, call the owner and tell him to go turn it off. If it is out at sea, and they can't contact you, at least they know right where to go to check. The correct question is not how many lives have been saved by an EPIRB but how many have been lost by the lack of one. The answer is a big number.

osirissail · 28-05-2011, 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cormorant

Here's a case where a PLB would have saved a life. We hear about deaths like this at least 2 or 3 times a year -- boat found adrift, man overboard, body found a day or two later. With a PLB attached to your life vest, a hopeless situation turns into a quick rescue. . . .

You are making an assumption that is rarely valid - That sailors wear a PFD all the time when sailing. That is rarely the case. The PFD's are tucked away in a locker and the sailor rarely has anything on except clothing appropriate to the temperature/climate.
- - There are many processes involved in sailing a sailboat and some of them are prone to be rather dangerous especially in smaller sailboats where there is not much deck space available to stand and operate. Any one of them can result in the single-hander being knocked overboard or knocked unconscious and falling overboard.
- - So in most cases since PFD's are not being worn with or without a rescue device - PLB/whatever there is zero correlation between the drowning/death and the presence or absence of a PLB or SPOT type device.

meyermm · 29-05-2011, 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by osirissail

You are making an assumption that is rarely valid - That sailors wear a PFD all the time when sailing. That is rarely the case. The PFD's are tucked away in a locker and the sailor rarely has anything on except clothing appropriate to the temperature/climate.
- - There are many processes involved in sailing a sailboat and some of them are prone to be rather dangerous especially in smaller sailboats where there is not much deck space available to stand and operate. Any one of them can result in the single-hander being knocked overboard or knocked unconscious and falling overboard.
- - So in most cases since PFD's are not being worn with or without a rescue device - PLB/whatever there is zero correlation between the drowning/death and the presence or absence of a PLB or SPOT type device.

Cormorant made the point that had the person been wearing a PLB he would have had a chance. This thread was whether EPIRBS and Liferafts save lives. The fact that the deceased in this case was not wearing a device is the same as a boat not having an EPIRB aboard I would have thought???

Therapy · 29-05-2011, 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by meyermm

Cormorant made the point that had the person been wearing a PLB he would have had a chance. This thread was whether EPIRBS and Liferafts save lives. The fact that the deceased in this case was not wearing a device is the same as a boat not having an EPIRB aboard I would have thought???

Yea, but after 25 pages and 250 tangents it is hard to figger what is what about this/that particular situation. So many I am distracted too.

Thanks for resetting the course.

goboatingnow · 29-05-2011, 08:28

Quote:

Yea, but after 25 pages and 250 tangents it is hard to figger what is what about this/that particular situation. So many I am distracted too

The conclusions reached in this thread, despite Evans view, is that EPIRBS and PLB are "good things" and should be carried and they do not engender a sense of recklessness.

Theres thats a summary

Dave

osirissail · 29-05-2011, 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by meyermm

Cormorant made the point that had the person been wearing a PLB he would have had a chance. This thread was whether EPIRBS and Liferafts save lives. . .

That is what I have been trying to get at - This thread's original discussion is about for those who DO have EPIRBS and Liferafts - do they save lives?
- - It has since branched - as almost all the threads in the forum - away from the OP into a discussion of whether you should have such equipment whether you choose to or not. That is a whole different discussion. A good one, but not really within the OP's intent.
- - So "should've, could've, would've" is a long way from the reality of cruising and sailing as it exists today. Such discussions of "had the person . . ." been "whatever" normally eventually lead to governmental imposition into your personal life/liberty by mandating that you do/wear/operate whatever to protect yourself from yourself.
- - That concept/reality of forced protection is one of the main reasons a lot of folk take to the cruising lifestyle. It is something we are trying to get away from. Long term Cruisers are very jealous/protective of their liberty and the ability to be responsible - or irresponsible - with their own lives.

sabray · 29-05-2011, 08:42

So right. I put this stuff on board when the kids came along. Now that I have it I feel better about storing gas cans below deck . Dont bother with running lights stopped keeping watches. Smiley devil face with horns. Really hasn't changed in anyway how I sail.. Doesn't even cross my mind when making choices.

osirissail · 29-05-2011, 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The conclusions reached in this thread, despite Evans view, is that EPIRBS and PLB are "good things" and should be carried and they do not engender a sense of recklessness.
Theres thats a summary

Dave

And of course that is your own considered "opinion" and valid within your own experience and observations - - Other people have different opinions and they are just as valid within their experiences and observations.

goboatingnow · 29-05-2011, 09:09

Quote:

And of course that is your own considered "opinion" and valid within your own experience and observations - - Other people have different opinions and they are just as valid within their experiences and observations.

"If I want YOUR opinions, I'll trash them out of you " if you dont mind

Dave

**boatman61** · 29-05-2011, 09:29

Hmmmm 369 posts... not doing to bad....

Hoi n de Polloi's

**Paul Elliott** · 29-05-2011, 09:30

I wrote:

Quote:

The beacon receiver did trigger last year while we were at sea. We checked our various emergency beacons but none of them were activated, and there was no other signal heard. I suspect that it was random noise -- you listen to noise long enough and it will eventually sound like a real signal. Oh well, one false alarm in five weeks of continuous operation isn't too bad, and it was a good drill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therapy

You must have just sailed past some poor drowning person.

Very unlikely. It was around midnight and I saw no strobe or other light in the area, there was no alarm signal to be heard when I monitored the frequency, and we were about 700 miles from land with no other vessels in the vicinity.

Although one time a crewmember told us a story about a Transpac he did with his father many years ago (back when dinosaurs roamed the earth): They were still a couple days from reaching Honolulu when they spotted something floating ahead of them. As they approached it began to look like a body. Fearing the worst, they slowed, circled -- it was a body! They grabbed the victim, who then smiled and said "thank you!" The guy had fallen off one of the raceboats ahead just beyond the horizon. As they learned when reaching land, when the other boat noticed their guy was missing they stopped and searched, but never found him.

The moral of this story? Keep a lookout, don't fall off the boat, sail where the water's warm, and be lucky.

Cormorant · 29-05-2011, 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by osirissail

You are making an assumption that is rarely valid - That sailors wear a PFD all the time when sailing. That is rarely the case. The PFD's are tucked away in a locker and the sailor rarely has anything on except clothing appropriate to the temperature/climate....

It's true that people don't wear PFDs because they're clunky or uncomfortable or hot. (And of course everyone thinks they're not going to fall overboard.)

PLBs are not used for similar reasons -- too clunky to keep affixed to oneself in everyday life. So it seems to me the technology just needs to advance a few steps more -- and I'm sure it till in time -- to where your PLB is embedded in your wristwatch. (Or implanted in your skull, with a telescoping antenna coming out the top . . .

)

Then the answer to to "do they save lives?" will more often be answered yes.

goboatingnow · 29-05-2011, 10:48

Quote:

It's true that people don't wear PFDs because they're clunky or uncomfortable or hot. (And of course everyone thinks they're not going to fall overboard.)

I regulary wear mine clipped to my harness or PFD, Ive done transatlantics that way. They are not clunky or uncomfortable. Theres no excuse not to carry one, especially in cold water.

hellosailor · 29-05-2011, 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Theres no excuse not to carry one,

I beg to differ, there are about 300 excuses not to carry one. i.e., the cost. For some folks, yes, even some folks who are rich enough to own a boat or crew on one, that's a stopper.

And then even if you have the disposable income...How many male boaters are found every year, overboard and drowned, with their fly open? That's right, ask the USCG, every year something like half the floaters just HAD to pee over the rail and went overboard that way and died.

If you can't convince a boater to pee in a jug, how are you going to convince them that "overboard" is a real concern, and one worth spending $300 on?

Look at it this way, not using a PLB is a personal freedom. It helps the gene pool. Feeds the fishes, especially the crabs. SAR costs? I guess they could go up or down, depending on whether anyone was bothering to look, but as the SAR guys all say, they need the flight hours for training anyway.