Do I Need A Life Raft

[RPZ]

El Faro's crew had been fighting flooding and other issues, no telling how much sleep any of them had.

When the ship lost power it got hammered. The bridge structure was torn off. Many of the crew might have still have been aboard when it either capsized, broke up, sank and suffered injuries prior to getting in or attempting to deploy lifeboats or rafts.

Mention is made of a damaged lifeboat found with no one aboard. I would suggest it probably broke off its mounting before it could be deployed, or it was damaged during deployment against the deck or hull and never boarded.

Odds are not good in a storm and sea like that, but it is not hopeless if you have the right stuff and make use of it, both mentally and materially.

[RPZ]

Just some additional thoughts.

Even on a nonslip level platform it is impossible to stand up and move in a gusting 175 mph wind. You would have to literally crawl or at least be on hands and knees if not holding on to solid objects. I've been at altitude in the mountains in both steady and gusting winds well in excess of 100 and experienced it well rested, in good shape, and well clothed. It is highly likely many of the crew were seriously injured or died on the deck or trying to go over the sides from trauma impacts from wind and waves.

Once in the water floating cargo and debris would be thrown around by the high waves. I would say most of those poor guys died that way. The few that remained probly became quickly exhausted and simply drowned.

Apart from the ship taking a different route, under the circumstances they probably did not decide to abandon ship soon enough.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Just in case you think any SOLAS survival gear is going to help you in F12, this was all that was found floating from the ship El Faro with 33 souls on board:

On October 5, an unidentified body in a survival suit, presumed to be from El Faro, was found but was not recovered. According to the rescue diver, the body was unrecognizable and was left to be retrieved later in the day. However, a failure in the positioning device SLDMB ultimately resulted in losing the body.[34][35] Several other unopened suits were recovered.[36] A deflated life raft and a heavily damaged lifeboat—one of two aboard El Faro, each capable of carrying 43 people and stocked with food and water for a few days—with no one aboard were also found.

This make the dinghy look good for a life boat. Nothing works in extreme conditions anyway. With the great weather reporting now there is no excuse to get caught in extreme weather anyway.

[RPZ]

Been thinking more about this. I am surprised that no one has designed and marketed a sort of miniature, fully enclosed lifeboat for 2, 4, 6 etc. It could be aluminum, fiberglass or some kind of super strong injection molded abs plastic.

The biggest downside to the conventional life raft is it's longevity. After years of the sun on that canister, cold and heat cycles, it is going to degrade. Everything in that canister is going to be suspect. So why not have a big canister that IS the liferaft?

A fully enclosed mini lifeboat could be made top and bottom (pick your material) bolted together with a tough neoprene gasket. The gasket along with any perishable "survival" content that would be the only things that would periodically have to be replaced.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by RPZ

Been thinking more about this. I am surprised that no one has designed and marketed a sort of miniature, fully enclosed lifeboat for 2, 4, 6 etc. It could be aluminum, fiberglass or some kind of super strong injection molded abs plastic.

The biggest downside to the conventional life raft is it's longevity. After years of the sun on that canister, cold and heat cycles, it is going to degrade. Everything in that canister is going to be suspect. So why not have a big canister that IS the liferaft?

A fully enclosed mini lifeboat could be made top and bottom (pick your material) bolted together with a tough neoprene gasket. The gasket along with any perishable "survival" content that would be the only things that would periodically have to be replaced.

Portland Pudgy has already done it: Technical Info - Portland Pudgy

The problems, as always, are cost, space for storage and weight.
$4k+
8'x4'4"x2'4"
128lb

[Pelagic]

Curious how an aluminium or fiberglass life raft could be compacted enough to the size of a suitcase and automatically deploy at the pull of a line?

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Curious how an aluminium or fiberglass life raft could be compacted enough to the size of a suitcase and automatically deploy at the pull of a line?

RPZ wrote lifeBOAT not lifeRAFT.

[RPZ]

Adelie,
I get space and weight; this concept would really only work with 40+ footers as a minimum - and that depending on the topside layout etc. But the cost sounds like gouging. It doesn't - or rather need not - take 4k to build a hull and top that would work.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by RPZ

Adelie,
I get space and weight; this concept would really only work with 40+ footers as a minimum - and that depending on the topside layout etc. But the cost sounds like gouging. It doesn't - or rather need not - take 4k to build a hull and top that would work.

It's not gouging, it's producing a complex product for a limited market.

The original design has to be amortized over a small number of hulls.
The rotomolder has to be amortized over a small number of hulls.
Maintenance of molder and facilities.
Payment for marketing.
Product liability
. . .
When you are dealing with a small market the overhead kills you.

Inflatable liferafts have a bigger market, they can sell to commercial vessels and to the aircraft industry. The fixed costs are spread over a larger number of hulls.

Maybe in a decade or so the market may expand, but I don't think so, I think the general consensus has bought into the idea of your emergency vessel being inflatable.

[RPZ]

I understand all those things, the bottom line is that you are only downsizing a "life boat" to dingy size. You don't have to call it a life boat, you can simply market it as a glorified dingy (that will give you some shelter if you gave to abandon your boat).

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Adelie

RPZ wrote lifeBOAT not lifeRAFT.

Oops!

[RPZ]

Forgiven. I .... ME that is .. does that all the time too.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by RPZ

I understand all those things, the bottom line is that you are only downsizing a "life boat" to dingy size. You don't have to call it a life boat, you can simply market it as a glorified dingy (that will give you some shelter if you gave to abandon your boat).

If you want to justify the extra price of the top you have to say Lifeboat. That incurs extra liability, and probably extra testing to meet USCG and EU requirements. If you don't say Lifeboat then nobody wants to pay you the extra money for the extra parts.

I just found something that indicates they are selling about 85 pudgy's per year. I get the feeling it's a mom & pop operation or they would't be able to survive selling that many.

Don't get me wrong, I'd happy to see somebody come up with a good rigid lifeboat, I question how valuable liferafts really are. The problem is that failures are unlikely to leave a lot of evidence to pick over so it's hard to know how well the really work. The existence of successes does not mean they work well, only that they worked those time for those people.

[RPZ]

I get it. But you could design and produce it under a limited liability company or partnership. Last I heard when I did that (Germans called it a GmbH) max liability for a LLC was DM 50k.

"Pudgey" is selling so few because they are asking too much for what it is. Cut the cost in half and you'd sell a lot more.

Coast guard would not come into it. Its an enclosed dinghy that anyone with free will can carry instead of a life raft. If they can carry an inflatable or dinghy instead of a life raft, they can carry an enclosed dinghy.

[RPZ]

Adelie,

Afterthought; if they are selling that many at 4k per unit that is 340k gross a year. They are not struggling at all even at that price.