Paper Charts Now Unnecessary

[Sundowner Porto]

[QUOTE=Mr B;1058048]

A letter took six weeks to get to England or America from Australia,


LOL it still does - so everything moves on apart from the Post Office

[wolfenzee]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

There's something about jumping off the dinghy into deeper water than expected only to realise the phone is in those deep pockets!!!!

My waterproof mechanical yacht start watch still works after 40 years but it's only a start timer not a time teller.

Have you got a wind up barograph????

I do have an almost (2 1/2"dia) pocket watch size barometer (made by a German company as an altimeter/barometer for hiking so it reads in millibars and Celsius), my wrist mechanical wristwatch is water proof to a depth of 30meters....my pocket watch is more for dress situations (though it would still recover from dowsing that would kill a cell).

[Lagoon4us]

At winters end we are heading for Montenegro where a lot of Seacaptains once lived that plied the Med, apparently the shrubs that grow there have been bought over the years by them.
Hoping there may be some old stuff in a store or marine shop....
Would like to get a barograph though....

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

GPS is a system, carrying a backup in whatever form, I-Phone, Puck or a complete installed backup still relies on that system.

However it is a SYSTEM nonetheless, a singular one at that and there lays the weakness, i cannot repair electronics, if there is a static surge or if the satellites suffer a solar event or whatever i cannot repair my gear BUT i can and would revert to my backup.

Reverting to a back-up/redundancy is what a cruisers life is about, anchor winch breaks i use our sheet winches, Diesel is contaminated i sail off and onto my moorings ALWAYS there are contingencies.

Being able to fend for yourself, taking control and doing your best with what you have in any situation is being responsible after all we made the choice to cruise.

Hence charts either large or small scale are the natural back up for a cruiser. A great thread it's interesting reading through the ideas. Well done!

Frank

Well, you're entitled to use whatever back up you want, but I prefer to have a backup chartplotter, because they're very useful.

If the whole world fell apart and all the satellites were taken out of commission, then it is true that neither would work. But if my main chart plotter goes out, I can still get my lat and long from my handheld and know that my lack of decades of experience will not navigate us into some rocks or something. I can check my position at any time.

People who have sailed a lot for 40 years will have more experience than people who have sailed a lot for 10 years. For me, it's only sensible to recognize what I do and do not know -- at least not solidly enough to bet the life of me and my crew on it.

The process of combining chart plotter with charts is in itself instructional.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by nigel1

There is a tremendous sense of satisfaction in being able to fix your position with a sextant.
Lots of online help is out there, and if you can get hold of second hand sextant, you can practice at the dock, tables, sextant, and a bucket of water should be enough. The nautical tables are freely available online, a bucket of water is dead cheap, so that just leaves the sextant to worry about.
Good luck

I'm sure there is a tremendous sense of satisfaction. But there are also only 24 hours in a day. To do that, I will have to NOT spend time on something else. It's all choices. I may well do it one day, but it won't be today.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

it's not ego, (ego would be "I can do something you can't do"), but rather the smugness you feel when you think "I can do something any seasoned sailor should know how to do, that you have just chosen not to learn"). I have allways enjoyed doing things myself that it would otherwise take a very complicated machine to accomplish as well as sharing in an age old skill which in addition to telling you your location give you an understanding of time and space. I remember the thrill I got as a kid when I found out that a nautical mile was equal to 1 minute of longitude at the equator (thus 60nm to a degree * 360 =21600nm.....the circumfrance of the earth at the equator). Or when the basics of celestial navigation were explained to me in a book "How to navigate today" (first published in 1943)....everything clicked.

Oh I think saying "I know something you don't know" is ego. I know that using a sextant is not the first thing taught to beginning sailors. I know there's still plenty of things for me to learn. Using a sextant could be one of them, but I personally might have good reason to not do that right at this moment.

It doesn't make anyone smarter than me. It does make them a more skilled sailor, but I think focusing on a sextant just for the bragging rights would be kind of silly (and egotistical).

I don't know any other sailors who have been sailing for five years who know how to use a sextant except for a couple of 19 year olds in the Coast Guard Academy. I'm not doing so badly, but it's not the only thing left for me to learn, so I have to make choices.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

Less confusing and being a sphere the nautical mile is a unit of length that is about one minute of arc of latitude measured along any meridian, or about one minute of arc of longitude at the equator.
Wish schools inspired by teaching basics like this but i guess now I-phones will negate the desire to learn, just get an app teacher!!!!

Really? I was taught to use a divider in a one-night CGA class.

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Well, you're entitled to use whatever back up you want, but I prefer to have a backup chartplotter, because they're very useful.

If the whole world fell apart and all the satellites were taken out of commission, then it is true that neither would work. But if my main chart plotter goes out, I can still get my lat and long from my handheld and know that my lack of decades of experience will not navigate us into some rocks or something. I can check my position at any time.

People who have sailed a lot for 40 years will have more experience than people who have sailed a lot for 10 years. For me, it's only sensible to recognize what I do and do not know -- at least not solidly enough to bet the life of me and my crew on it.

The process of combining chart plotter with charts is in itself instructional.

Of course i am my point being IF there is a pulse either static electro-magnetic teal there will be no functioning electronics whether handheld, pocket held or otherwise hence paper lives on, a bit like this thread methinks.....

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

There is a certain amount of skill required to use electronic nav, but people coming from a push button culture, don't realize that some degree of thought is still required after the machine has finished all it's thinking. Which is harder for the people that are not trained in the "obsolete" forms of navigation....this shows the value of knowing the old school form of navigation.

They don't????

[Cookiesa]

And of course those with the ability to do so can print charts for their intending journey and harbours, (including back up loactions, anchorages etc) in whatever size they like with as much or little detail as they like.

[wolfenzee]

Having the finaces as well as the knowledge to be able to take advantage of all the combined capabilities of electronics is about on a par with being extremely skilled in all forms of "analog" navigation......the only thing better than that is both.
I'm a poor sailor and will never be able to get the most out of my electronics (I have Nobeltec which will eventually be integrated with GPS,Radar, AIS and the new digital stuff available on VHF and SSB). Someday I hope to be more proficient at "analog" navigation. For myself I want to integrate the two and take the parts of both worlds that apply to me and compliment each other.

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

Having the finaces as well as the knowledge to be able to take advantage of all the combined capabilities of electronics is about on a par with being extremely skilled in all forms of "analog" navigation......the only thing better than that is both.
I'm a poor sailor and will never be able to get the most out of my electronics (I have Nobeltec which will eventually be integrated with GPS,Radar, AIS and the new digital stuff available on VHF and SSB). Someday I hope to be more proficient at "analog" navigation. For myself I want to integrate the two and take the parts of both worlds that apply to me and compliment each other.

We are many kinds of sailors on these boards - cruisers, weekend sailors, wannabes, racers, circumnavigators.

Even among the cruisers (for which the Cruisers Forum is named) there are multiple divisions.

You can fly a plane with nothing more than a stick, so long as you can see the horizon, and you can sail a boat with nothing more than a rudder and a line, so long as you can see the shore. Everything from there on up - where it be electronic chart plotters receiving digital wireless updates or a 20 year old paper chart - is just adding layers of technologies to gain additional capability.

In some ways it's annoying but in other ways enlightening. Sometimes I'm frustrated by floods of responses which are not relevant to cruising, but also I enjoy reading the diverse points of view and know that, someday, I might be a racer or a circumnavigator or a celestial sailor, and all that additional chit-chat will be valuable to me.

[wolfenzee]

Originally Posted by ArtM

We are many kinds of sailors on these boards - cruisers, weekend sailors, wannabes, racers, circumnavigators.

Even among the cruisers (for which the Cruisers Forum is named) there are multiple divisions.

You can fly a plane with nothing more than a stick, so long as you can see the horizon, and you can sail a boat with nothing more than a rudder and a line, so long as you can see the shore. Everything from there on up - where it be electronic chart plotters receiving digital wireless updates or a 20 year old paper chart - is just adding layers of technologies to gain additional capability.

In some ways it's annoying but in other ways enlightening. Sometimes I'm frustrated by floods of responses which are not relevant to cruising, but also I enjoy reading the diverse points of view and know that, someday, I might be a racer or a circumnavigator or a celestial sailor, and all that additional chit-chat will be valuable to me.

I was trying pretty hard to phrase it in such away as to point out it was my personal preference and to describe what that was. What bothers me to no end is the people that think their way is the only way, they are right and anything else is wrong.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

I was trying pretty hard to phrase it in such away as to point out it was my personal preference and to describe what that was. What bothers me to no end is the people that think their way is the only way, they are right and anything else is wrong.

That about sums it up very well,

[Seren y Mor]

Originally Posted by mbianka

"I just can't imagine a situation short of abandoning ship where I'd lose charting capability. And then it doesn't really matter much anymore."


Two words: LIGHTNING STRIKE!

Not to mention :

Complete power failure.
High humidity.
High winds take GPS antennae over the side.

Etc., etc., . . . not having even an old chart of where you are and a simple compass is like saying you're having your eyes removed as you have great radar and AIS!