Garmin or B&G for sailboat

[Mercedes98]

Anyone have experience with Garmin GPSMAP 942xs Touchscreen Chartplotter/Sonar Combo w/GMR 18 xHD Radar ? or BG Zeus3 9" Multifunction Display 4G Radar Bundle ? I'm looking to purchase navigation packaging for sailboat try to make a decision between B&G and Garmin.
I would appreciate any advice.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Mercedes98

Anyone have experience with Garmin GPSMAP 942xs Touchscreen Chartplotter/Sonar Combo w/GMR 18 xHD Radar ? or BG Zeus3 9" Multifunction Display 4G Radar Bundle ? I'm looking to purchase navigation packaging for sailboat try to make a decision between B&G and Garmin.
I would appreciate any advice.

stay away from Garmin, they replace their products all 3-4 years and then you are forgotten....

B&G Zeus 3 is much more advanced but a little complicated to operate, i needed the first time in my life the manual to operate it properly. But then it is very good. only downside of B&G is you cannot remote steer the autopilot via iPad, doesn't matter if you use their iLink app or eg iSailor. B&G blocks that. you need their ap remote with sender which costs 600$ altogether.
Have Zeus 2 and 4G Broadband on my 40ft pilothouse ketch and very satisfied. support is lala but you get one even for the older stuff.

Would recommend to get Zeus 3+ 9" with the Halo20 Radar and not 4G. Much less power needed and better results.

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

stay away from Garmin, they replace their products all 3-4 years and then you are forgotten....

Would recommend to get Zeus 3+ 9" with the Halo20 Radar and not 4G. Much less power needed and better results.

Both Garmin and Raymarine will be "outdated" in a few years and eventually will have dwindling tech support. They keep in business by having you buy the latest and greatest.

That said, late last year we purchased a Halo20+ instead of a 3/4G radar which are now "dated" tech. It is good w/very little power draw. We didn't purchase the Zeus, but plugged the radar RJ45 directly into our Rpi w/opencpn and it works well.

Have found the opencpn open share ware to be very good and all the volunteers do a wonderful job making great advancements/updates to the software. In many ways it may be better than the commercial software packages that come w/the name brand products. Would suggest you take look at opencpn instead of either of those big brands.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by Mercedes98

Anyone have experience with Garmin GPSMAP 942xs Touchscreen Chartplotter/Sonar Combo w/GMR 18 xHD Radar ? or BG Zeus3 9" Multifunction Display 4G Radar Bundle ? I'm looking to purchase navigation packaging for sailboat try to make a decision between B&G and Garmin.
I would appreciate any advice.

Both are good tools. I have delivered boats with Ray, Garmin and B&G. For me, the Ray and Garmin menus system are more intuitive.

On my personal boat there is a smorgasbord of manufacturers. BUT since I a starting to get into racing, I will be going to B&G. Why? Because the sail steer feature is rather handy on a race course. Arriving 60 second late, hurts! But, if cruising, does it matter?

Some general guidance from actual use:

1) Do NOT get a touchscreen system. They work great in the showroom, at the dock or inside the wheelhouse of a 200 foot vessel. In the real world- when a touch screen gets wet it does wonky things. When your 30, 40 or 60 foot vessel starts rolling, using a touchscreen become difficult. It almost looks like something that could be used for a "roadside sobriety test".

2) Do NOT purchase a Ray, Garmin or B&G AIS. I prefer the Vesper XB-8000 with wifi. Why? The vesper will allow you to connect a tablet or laptop running your favorite app or program (cheaper to update those charts) and receive all the data from vessel's sensors. Yes those manufacturers have wifi. BUT to use their wifi requires using their app. The last time I used on the app was cumbersome. It also denies you the ability to have a cheap second set of charts.

[BillKny]

My advice to people used to be, "pick whichever manufacturer has the user interface you like best, they are all pretty similer."

That has changed. Note that this is advice for cruising sailboat, not powerboats, or day sailers....

Avoid any "touch screen" only interface... like the plague. Truly a nightmare to interact with in any detail while underway and the boat is bouncing along. Some kind of other way of selecting and adjusting is really important to have. The smaller the screen, the more pain ignoring this advice will cause you.

The Raymarine presentation of sailing data is very primitive compared to B&G. B&G's 4 inch Triton 2 display shows AWA, AWA, TWA, TWS, Set and Drift in both graphical and numeric formats in a way I find clear and easy to understand. The same graphic can be overlaid on the chartplotter.

I have a Raymarine AIS feeding into an all B&G system. My wifi link outputs all the AIS data, in fact ALL the N2K data, via TCP so any third party package can use it. The statement that you NEED to have a Vesper unit to do this is just wrong.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Snore

Both are good tools. I have delivered boats with Ray, Garmin and B&G. For me, the Ray and Garmin menus system are more intuitive.

On my personal boat there is a smorgasbord of manufacturers. BUT since I a starting to get into racing, I will be going to B&G. Why? Because the sail steer feature is rather handy on a race course. Arriving 60 second late, hurts! But, if cruising, does it matter?

Some general guidance from actual use:

1) Do NOT get a touchscreen system. They work great in the showroom, at the dock or inside the wheelhouse of a 200 foot vessel. In the real world- when a touch screen gets wet it does wonky things. When your 30, 40 or 60 foot vessel starts rolling, using a touchscreen become difficult. It almost looks like something that could be used for a "roadside sobriety test".

2) Do NOT purchase a Ray, Garmin or B&G AIS. I prefer the Vesper XB-8000 with wifi. Why? The vesper will allow you to connect a tablet or laptop running your favorite app or program (cheaper to update those charts) and receive all the data from vessel's sensors. Yes those manufacturers have wifi. BUT to use their wifi requires using their app. The last time I used on the app was cumbersome. It also denies you the ability to have a cheap second set of charts.

sure all big brands get the job done to simply navigate. but as an owner you care about more stuff like easy of integration, support as long as possible (which is a Garmin killer).... but you don't need the newest stuff. Just when something really new comes out it makes sense to upgrade. eg radar the Halo are using much less energy and are really good to monitor close sea. With this low energy consumption its nearly always on when plotter is on...here it makes sense to upgrade from your blind spots, huge energy consumption and warming up times of older radars.
to 1) you cannot avoid touchscreen today but eg B&G has both button and touchscreen. on a mono make sure you install it protected at the helm so no spray gets on it easyly or you have a see through cover if really bad weather. others are more intuative but if you get used to B&G its like using any other one but b&G has several stuff that no other manufacturer provides and most likely the longest support "life". Sail steer is not only for regatta, it also helps you to trim your sails right eg have less heel, less stress on material and yes going 1kn faster sums up over a long passage too. just from my experience, i hated B&G the first 3-4 month on my new boat but after getting used to its logic I won't use another manufacturer. Its like switching from Mircosoft to apple....


2) vesper is great but costs the double amount then others. to have NMEA data incl. AIS you simply use the Yacht Devices NMEA to wifi dongle and have all NMEA data you need, doen't matter which brand AIS you have (B&G blocks AP remote via NMEA+apps, see above). the challenge with Ipad/tablets is to get radar on it to be a full chartplotter replacement and the Furono wifi radar sucks. that only works with propetary apps of B&G/Raymarine.....or if you are an IT geek you can go the opencpn route above. I do it simple, I have an Ipad pro and in split screen B&G Link app and Navionics or iSailor in paralell. So the smallest and therefor cheapest plotter of the top series (instead of eg a big screen and the standard one eg Zeus 7" plus Ipad pro instead of Vulcan 9) is doing it as I use the 12.9 Ipad pro anyhow 95% of the time. The Ipad pro i have anyhow for a lot other things.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by BillKny

My advice to people used to be, "pick whichever manufacturer has the user interface you like best, they are all pretty similer."

That has changed. Note that this is advice for cruising sailboat, not powerboats, or day sailers....

Avoid any "touch screen" only interface... like the plague. Truly a nightmare to interact with in any detail while underway and the boat is bouncing along. Some kind of other way of selecting and adjusting is really important to have. The smaller the screen, the more pain ignoring this advice will cause you.

The Raymarine presentation of sailing data is very primitive compared to B&G. B&G's 4 inch Triton 2 display shows AWA, AWA, TWA, TWS, Set and Drift in both graphical and numeric formats in a way I find clear and easy to understand. The same graphic can be overlaid on the chartplotter.

I have a Raymarine AIS feeding into an all B&G system. My wifi link outputs all the AIS data, in fact ALL the N2K data, via TCP so any third party package can use it. The statement that you NEED to have a Vesper unit to do this is just wrong.

I have exactly the same all B&G and raymarine AIS plus YD NMEA to wifi dongle. Can you remote steer your autopilot computer with an app eg iSailor? I have all NMEA on the wifi eg AIS data in Isalior but cannot get iSailor to remote steer the ap. the B&G link app mirrors the plotter to the Ipad pro and all can be operated remotely except remote changes on ap is blocked due to security.



Have a pilothouse ketch with inside helm but wanna operate via Ipad from stern where I am when weather is good. I have no stern helm station.

[Ded reckoner]

We have the Garmin 1022xsv chartplotter. It is not a touchscreen. We bought this when it was a fairly new product introduction (so I knew I would have some runway for support).

I agree with CaptainRivet and Bill O. I had prior experience with a Garmin handheld purchased about 7 years ago. It still works. I bought it refurbished and had some questions, but Garmin told me to talk to the hand. Fortunately, I figured the problem out. I can still get updated memory cards (e.g. CMAP) for the latest charts. When they say Garmin deprecates their devices, my experience is that means no more firmware updates, not much support.

I agree with Snore and BillKny. I recommend *NOT* getting a touchscreen only device. My understanding is they work better now with a wet screen or wet fingers. I don't think they work with fully gloved fingers. In any case, I can't imagine trying to use one in rough conditions such as we've experienced sometimes offshore. Having knob or button capability, instead of only a touchscreen, is a purchase requirement of mine.

We have had a good experience with our current chartplotter. I would recommend Garmin for the quality of their products and their user friendliness. The times we've needed support, we've had timely and effective response. I definitely would consider buying Garmin again. Just consider buying new product introductions rather than models that have been on the market for a couple years.

[BillKny]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

I have exactly the same all B&G and raymarine AIS plus YD NMEA to wifi dongle. Can you remote steer your autopilot computer with an app eg iSailor? I have all NMEA on the wifi eg AIS data in Isalior but cannot get iSailor to remote steer the ap. the B&G link app mirrors the plotter to the Ipad pro and all can be operated remotely except remote changes on ap is blocked due to security.

Have a pilothouse ketch with inside helm but wanna operate via Ipad from stern where I am when weather is good. I have no stern helm station.

I remote control of the AP is NOT allowed from the B&G app. For security purposes, that seems like a good idea to me. There is no way over wifi with any other app to alter course setting, as far as I know.

Only ONE device on the boat should have the ability to change course at a time, all the others should be locked out, wired, or wireless.

I appreciate the convenience that a wireless connection would offer you with your boat's configuration, I am just not trusting enough to go fully "fly-by-wire." without the wire. But that is just me.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by BillKny

I remote control of the AP is NOT allowed from the B&G app. For security purposes, that seems like a good idea to me. There is no way over wifi with any other app to alter course setting, as far as I know.

Only ONE device on the boat should have the ability to change course at a time, all the others should be locked out, wired, or wireless.

I appreciate the convenience that a wireless connection would offer you with your boat's configuration, I am just not trusting enough to go fully "fly-by-wire." without the wire. But that is just me.

you can do it with Isailor plus YD NMEA dongle with eg raymarine and Furono. the YD gives the NMEA steering sentences from iSailor directly to the ap computer, not via the chartplotter. B&G blocks it but I don't know how...if I check NMEA sentences they are exactly the same the iSailor is sending.

My boat delivery setup consists of iPad Pro12.9 with Navionics and iSailor, Garmin glow 10hz GPS mouse, Travel router GL-AR750 and a YD wifi to NMEA dongle. So I am independent whatever is on board but I can get the boats data to my device through the dongle. Its a closed boat internal wifi so I don't see any security issue here when I use the iPad instead of their propertary Wifi remote which costs 600Euro. Thats the real reason B&G blocks remote steer in the app and on the plotter.
Well and I use the delivery setup also on my own boat more then the full blown B&G installation. Mirror the chart plotter and have a used Triton 1 ap cable remote at the stern.

[fogmachine]

Originally Posted by Snore

1) Do NOT get a touchscreen system.
2) Do NOT purchase a Ray, Garmin or B&G AIS. I prefer the Vesper XB-8000 with wifi. Why? The vesper will allow you to connect a tablet or laptop running your favorite app or program.

Agree wrt touchscreen. These are safety devices and need to work in a seaway. OTOH I've have Raymarine knobs fail due to salt intrusion, so be careful out there.

B&G Zeus & Vulcan MFDs gateway all NMEA data (including AIS targets) to WiFi just like a Vesper. And unlike Vesper you can choose to filter redundant sensors (e.g. if there are several sources of GPS or heading).