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17-05-2022, 19:17
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,251
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B.C. Ferries finds ‘paper charts’ after problem with navigation system
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17-05-2022, 20:00
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#2
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Senior Cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43 and OPBs
Posts: 12,371
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Re: B.C. Ferries finds ‘paper charts’ after problem with navigation system
“paper charts have been sourced" sounds like they didn't have them on-board.
I thought it was a requirement on Canadian vessels.
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17-05-2022, 20:26
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Norfolk, VA USA
Posts: 553
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Re: B.C. Ferries finds ‘paper charts’ after problem with navigation system
[grammar rant]
I'm confused as to why the phrase "paper charts" is in quotes. I mean ... it makes sense in the sentence I just typed, but not in the context of the article title. Unless the charts being referred to are not actually paper charts, but are similar to such in one way or another.
[/grammar rant]
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17-05-2022, 20:50
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Vancouver Island
Boat: Hullmaster 27
Posts: 854
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Re: B.C. Ferries finds ‘paper charts’ after problem with navigation system
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM
“paper charts have been sourced" sounds like they didn't have them on-board.
I thought it was a requirement on Canadian vessels.
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I don't think they're required on big ships with a redundant ECDIS..
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17-05-2022, 22:56
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#5
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 19,672
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Re: B.C. Ferries finds ‘paper charts’ after problem with navigation system
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale
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True, but they can become illegible when soaked in water or coffee, get blown overboard when used in the cockpit, be destroyed by rats or mice, or be misfiled and hard to locate quickly when plans change. And the tools needed to effectively use them can be lost or damaged.
Yes, paper charts have failure modes too!
Jim
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Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, still hanging out in Port Cygnet. Summer was nice... it was on a Tuesday... and now winter has descended upon Tasmania. Brrr.
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18-05-2022, 00:27
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Australia...or Europe...or South Pacific
Boat: Just sold Tasman 40' catamaran...soon to be Dean 440 catamaran
Posts: 1,753
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Re: B.C. Ferries finds ‘paper charts’ after problem with navigation system
my interpretation of this article is that the ship (ferry) had an electronic charts system (ECDIS) which failed or otherwise went on the fritz.
such have redundancy which is supposed to stop this happening but as we know, anything electronic will find a way to fail. des[ite this, i expect somebody will have some explaining to do !
the operators then found some paper charts in the back of a filing cupboard somewhere which then enabled the ship (ferry) to get running again
nb : if a vessel has an approved ECDIS then she is not required to carry paper charts
cheers,
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"home is where the anchor drops"...now on Lake Mac to see family...maintaining social distancing
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18-05-2022, 00:50
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Boat: Island Packet 40
Posts: 5,333
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Re: B.C. Ferries finds ‘paper charts’ after problem with navigation system
Comes down to risk evaluation, is the risk of spilt coffee greater than the risk of a blown fuse.
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18-05-2022, 00:56
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Haida Gwaii
Boat: Landfall 39 - Ron Amy
Posts: 346
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Re: B.C. Ferries finds ‘paper charts’ after problem with navigation system
I could have lent them my phone.
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18-05-2022, 01:03
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: canada
Posts: 3,999
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Re: B.C. Ferries finds ‘paper charts’ after problem with navigation system
These guys go back and forth 8 times a day on the same route. Should not need a paper chart.., Should be in their head.
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18-05-2022, 01:53
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 10,447
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Re: B.C. Ferries finds ‘paper charts’ after problem with navigation system
Quote:
Originally Posted by smac999
These guys go back and forth 8 times a day on the same route. Should not need a paper chart.., Should be in their head.
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I realize, there are probably liability reasons prohibiting them from departing without charts but yeah, I would be worried if the ferry captain couldn't pull up google maps and make the run perfectly safely based on past experience.
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18-05-2022, 02:21
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#11
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Senior Cruiser

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 47,052
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Re: B.C. Ferries finds ‘paper charts’ after problem with navigation system
Appendix 6, of the IMO ECDIS Performance Standards, specifies the requirements for adequate independent back-up arrangements, that can take over, in the event of system failure.
The main requirement is the ability to make a timely transfer, to the back-up system, during critical navigation situations.
The majority of Flag States’ back-up requirements consist of an independent second ECDIS, or a folio of adequate, and up-to-date, paper charts.
However, each flag state may have differences in the interpretation of the SOLAS regulations. This may lead to differences in the back-up systems, and the level of redundancy required for the primary ECDIS.
Here’s an interesting paper, on the subject:
“Handling the ECDIS failure at sea” ➥ https://aga21.aast.edu/Attachment/download/204
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18-05-2022, 02:25
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Boat: 34' Crowther tri sold 16' Kayak now
Posts: 4,955
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Re: B.C. Ferries finds ‘paper charts’ after problem with navigation system
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oeanda
I could have lent them my phone.
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Exactly, none of the crew had any of the navigation apps loaded on their phones, pads or puters?
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GFYP
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18-05-2022, 06:55
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,251
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Re: B.C. Ferries finds ‘paper charts’ after problem with navigation system
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM
“paper charts have been sourced" sounds like they didn't have them on-board.
I thought it was a requirement on Canadian vessels.
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That requirement has been changed. They are going entirely digital. All they have done with their tide and current tables, chart 1, etc. is pdf them which make them really difficult to use.
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CRYA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator, Sail
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
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18-05-2022, 06:58
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,251
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Re: B.C. Ferries finds ‘paper charts’ after problem with navigation system
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate
True, but they can become illegible when soaked in water or coffee, get blown overboard when used in the cockpit, be destroyed by rats or mice, or be misfiled and hard to locate quickly when plans change. And the tools needed to effectively use them can be lost or damaged.
Yes, paper charts have failure modes too!
Jim
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No food or drink at the chart table (ask me why), No paper charts in the cockpit.
Check you charts before leaving.
__________________
CRYA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator, Sail
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
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18-05-2022, 09:07
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: SF Bay Area
Boat: Other people's boats
Posts: 755
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Re: B.C. Ferries finds ‘paper charts’ after problem with navigation system
Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360
I realize, there are probably liability reasons prohibiting them from departing without charts but yeah, I would be worried if the ferry captain couldn't pull up google maps and make the run perfectly safely based on past experience.
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Exactly; larger vessels have chart carriage requirements. Not having up-to-date official copies on properly validated software would be like sailing without your flares/PFDs/fire extinguishers/etc: penalties if caught, and extra liability should something go awry.
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