You are setting your anchors badly and then blaming the anchors

[colemj]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

This place has some of the most inconsiderate or poorly educated sailors of anyplace I have ever sailed, its like if you go to a parking lot and its full so you park on top of someone else and figure thats OK. Its almost as bad as the bunch of loser cruisers in Mexico that anchor in 10 feet of water and put out 150-200 feet of chain and take up the space of a couple of boats. Sorry you caught me on a subject that I am overly sensitive about...

We haven't been to the Med or Mexico, but we have sailed the entire US East coast, Bahamas, and the entire Caribbean.

So where is this mythical land that is full of considerate educated anchored boaters?

Mark

[colemj]

Furthermore, one cannot make everyone happy when it comes to anchoring.

We are currently anchored 600' behind another boat and we have 75' of chain out. When we pulled up 500' behind him to drop our anchor, he was standing in his cockpit with the bitch arms deployed, then waving his arms around and yelling that we were anchoring too close (this is a full anchorage - not one of those "you got an empty half mile bay and you picked here?" type of thing). So I ignored him, we anchored and he spends half his day now standing in the cockpit glaring at us and shaking his head.

He kinda looks like Boatman…

Mark

[Skeeko]

We do the hard reverse test and then sleep well. But I'll admit there might be times when letting the anchor settle in would be helpful.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by colemj

We haven't been to the Med or Mexico, but we have sailed the entire US East coast, Bahamas, and the entire Caribbean.

So where is this mythical land that is full of considerate educated anchored boaters?

Mark

It varies a lot depending on the place.

Where you have a high proportion of charterers, it's always much, much worse. I don't mean to disparage charterers; it's only natural that sailors who don't have their own boats will be vastly less skilled than the typical cruiser with his own boat.

So the Med, as a superprime charter destination, is awful.

The English Channel is the other end of the spectrum -- hardly any charters there. The English sailors like to disparage the anchoring abilities of the French (surprise, surprise), but I have not noticed anything to complain about. Other than different ideas from us about scope, I find sailors in the Channel to be highly skilled, mostly.

I spent a lot of time cruising in SW Florida, where everyone anchors out all the time, and I thought people there were mostly pretty good, too. Just a direct result of more practice, I think. Now in Florida, there is a cultural divide between motorboaters and sailors, and everyone used to cringe when a motorboat entered the anchorage. It was a given that you would just pull up the anchor and move if a big stinkpot anchored upwind of you. In Europe, you don't see that divide nearly as much, and in the Channel, you can be pretty sure that motorboaters who get as far as an anchorage will be highly skilled, no less than any sailor. In my experience, UK motorboaters are mostly really exceptionally polite and skilled, maybe going out of the way to prove that they are no worse than sailors.

I've been in the Baltic since early May, but can't say a single word about the manners and skill level of Baltic sailors -- because I've never shared an anchorage even once with another boat! Watching them come in and out of ports, and mooring up in that wacky bows-to manner they, I have to say that they look to be mostly very, very skilled.

[colemj]

Given the choice of sun, sand and warmth vs. cruising the English Channel, I guess we will continue to put up with the poor anchoring skilled…

Mark

[monte]

to avoid swinging over another yachts anchor in 5m of water would require a swinging room of about 35m + boat length at 5:1. So thats dropping the anchor about 50m from any other boats which requires at least 100m space between the existing boats.
Finding a place in the Med with 100m between yachts? Good luck!
Also entering an anchorage where yachts aren't laying to the anchor makes life tricky sometimes. We have been in the position where the tides have changed and we are pivitoting around the chain, with the anchor 40m dead astern. What happens when the next guy comes in and tries to do the right thing by dropping his anchor 20m behind us..
I usually try point to my anchor and let them know if thats the case.
Agreed it can be a pain to pull up the anchor when another yacht is over it, it happens sometimes. Its especially a pain on a cat because you need to move forward 10m just to unclip the bridle, so you cant reverse and motor around them if their transom is 10m from your bow.
I find the only way to allow for sufficient swinging room is to swim over and drop their offer to anchor for them a couple of hundred meters away. Occasionally they might swing into some rocks or whatever, but at least I don't have to worry about them swinging over my anchor.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by colemj

Given the choice of sun, sand and warmth vs. cruising the English Channel, I guess we will continue to put up with the poor anchoring skilled…

Mark

Thread drift, but this post implies that you have never tasted the incredible beauty of the English Channel, North Brittany, etc.



It is true that the sailing is much easier in the Med, without the huge tides, strong weather, and heavy ship traffic of the Channel. Another reason (besides the sun and warmth) that you find all the charterers there.

And of course I'm not by any means knocking the Med, which is magical, especially the Aegean and Adriatic.

But all of the European coasts -- Med, Atlantic, and especially the Baltic, my latest discovery, and maybe best of all of them -- are amazing cruising grounds, much more interesting than any I've experienced in any other part of the world.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by colemj

Furthermore, one cannot make everyone happy when it comes to anchoring.

We are currently anchored 600' behind another boat and we have 75' of chain out. When we pulled up 500' behind him to drop our anchor, he was standing in his cockpit with the bitch arms deployed, then waving his arms around and yelling that we were anchoring too close (this is a full anchorage - not one of those "you got an empty half mile bay and you picked here?" type of thing). So I ignored him, we anchored and he spends half his day now standing in the cockpit glaring at us and shaking his head.

He kinda looks like Boatman…

Mark

I know the situation well, especially the "bitch arms" . Hilarious and well told. I had a similar situation once, told about here:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ain-86277.html

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Thread drift, but this post implies that you have never tasted the incredible beauty of the English Channel, North Brittany, etc.

That is correct. However, I only own a single pair of pants (haven't seen them in 5 years and I don't know where they are), one long sleeve T-shirt and no shoes other than a pair of sandals and some flip flops. I would have to search for those sandals.

I would require a shopping trip to be sufficiently clothed for the EC. That implies that I need to get somewhere that has shops with warmer clothing.

Kind of a chicken-egg problem.

Mark

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I know the situation well, especially the "bitch arms" .

Actually, we call them "bitch wings" - I wrote it wrong.

Mark

[boatman61]

I obviously hang out in the wrong places in the Med.. most places I go are pretty and quiet.. even the Balearics have un-crowded spots.. and the Greek islands..
Just gotta break away from the 'Herd Mentality'...
Prime example is Las Brisas in Panama where everyone anchors as close as possible to the dinghy dock on short scopes in crap holding to save on a dinghy ride.. free amusement at least twice a week watching the 'Drags n Bumps'...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by colemj

That is correct. However, I only own a single pair of pants (haven't seen them in 5 years and I don't know where they are), one long sleeve T-shirt and no shoes other than a pair of sandals and some flip flops. I would have to search for those sandals.

I would require a shopping trip to be sufficiently clothed for the EC. That implies that I need to get somewhere that has shops with warmer clothing.

Kind of a chicken-egg problem.

Mark

What's the EC?

But I get your point -- you would be bright blue colored seal food in no time in these waters, in those clothes

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by colemj

Actually, we call them "bitch wings" - I wrote it wrong.

Mark

Great expression!

Going to add it to my inventory.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I obviously hang out in the wrong places in the Med.. most places I go are pretty and quiet.. even the Balearics have un-crowded spots.. and the Greek islands..
Just gotta break away from the 'Herd Mentality'...
Prime example is Las Brisas in Panama where everyone anchors as close as possible to the dinghy dock on short scopes in crap holding to save on a dinghy ride.. free amusement at least twice a week watching the 'Drags n Bumps'...

I've found that in a lot of parts of the Med, there are not that many feasible anchorages, so boats naturally get bunched up in them. Especially within a week's circuit around major charter ports. Especially in August when so many Europeans have vacation.

[Robin3]

[QUOTE=Dockhead;1572431]It varies a lot depending on the place.

Where you have a high proportion of charterers, it's always much, much worse. I don't mean to disparage charterers; it's only natural that sailors who don't have their own boats will be vastly less skilled than the typical cruiser with his own boat.

So the Med, as a superprime charter destination, is awful.

The English Channel is the other end of the spectrum -- hardly any charters there. The English sailors like to disparage the anchoring abilities of the French (surprise, surprise), but I have not noticed anything to complain about. Other than different ideas from us about scope, I find sailors in the Channel to be highly skilled, mostly.

Because The French in Southern Brittany Biscay anchorages are mostly on charter boats, with smallish anchors and string rodes?

I spent a lot of time cruising in SW Florida, where everyone anchors out all the time, and I thought people there were mostly pretty good, too. Just a direct result of more practice, I think. Now in Florida, there is a cultural divide between motorboaters and sailors, and everyone used to cringe when a motorboat entered the anchorage. It was a given that you would just pull up the anchor and move if a big stinkpot anchored upwind of you. In Europe, you don't see that divide nearly as much, and in the Channel, you can be pretty sure that motorboaters who get as far as an anchorage will be highly skilled, no less than any sailor. In my experience, UK motorboaters are mostly really exceptionally polite and skilled, maybe going out of the way to prove that they are no worse than sailors.

We always said mobos that went places were fine, the ones who just 'day blasted' out and back from the home marina much less so.

I was brought up thinking in terms of 3:1 scope on all chain and 5:1 on rope was a good starting point for normal conditions. We usually set the anchor on 3:1 on all chain and based on the expected HW depth plus an extra allowance for the bow roller height then ease the anchor in under Engine, gradually increasing engine revs to full astern whilst watching transits. Oft times because we would be anchoring at less than HW we would therefore be doing the initial set on a greater scope . If we expected stronger winds later we would let out a bit more rode too , but we always added a nylon snubber line with a wound- in rubber mooring compensator 'dog bone' included in it to take snatch out of the equation as the boat swings, IMO snatch loads are a top cause of dislodged anchors. Most of the time over 50 years of anchoring in UK Channel/ Biscay waters we avoided anchoring in strong streams and rarely did the anchor release and need to re-set itself on turn of tide, it either just carved it's way round in situ OR we even laid for a while on the weight of the chain and with the anchor in it's existing set orientation. We took great care to avoid locations with strong currents especially if wind direction blowing against current were possible or predicted later. Location Location Location!! WE could always find somewhere that was out of the main stream and sheltered from the wind as much as possible. we are starting a new learning curve here in the USA but will start off as we began over there and adapt if as and when we need to. With our now 36 footer, We have a 45lb genuine Delta on 150ft of of 3/8 HT chain ( with more warp available if needs be, but in the skinny waters round here we should be on all chain most of the time). We also have the inherited 'Dock Queen's' polished S/S claw with chain /warp we could add to the mix if we feel we need to, but do not want to complicate things by Bahamian moor techniques or fore/aft stuff. We live overlooking a popular passage anchorage on the ICW and I naturally watch the people using that area with interest. Mostly nobody drags, at least not obviously, but some take a few attempts to do their initial set but thereafter some wander around a long way on their very long string rodes, whereas those on chain alone seem much more considerate of space usage and remain in a smaller area with any changes of current or wind.