Marking your anchor location

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Don C L

. . . I just realized I must sound like either the unluckiest, or dumbest, at anchoring around if I have fouled my anchor enough to comment on this!

Or the most experienced . . .

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

Not being deliberately contentious, just musing . . .

The video shows a Danforth hanging vertically, presenting a fouled chain that would almost be impossible to miss. The video was obviously made by someone who could see exactly what they were doing, witnessed by the fact that the hook was at exactly the right depth and facing the right way.

Whilst I’m not for a moment saying it can’t be done, I believe that if the anchor was near the ground in murky water, the video may have been different. That would mean dropping the hook onto the ground and losing any “feel” needed to grab the chain. And dragging the two ropes over the chain from a deeper point would surely turn the flat hook sideways-on?

I was in Fiji a couple of years ago when a fishing trawler broke free, drifted down on an anchored fleet and caused at least one boat to pay out and eventually abandon 100 metres of stainless 10mm chain (read $$$) into 6 metres of water. The owner of the trawler, faced with the prospect of paying for the lost chain (and stainless anchor) spent a week using every conceivable device (but probably not this hook) trawling back and forth across the area with a tender and never found the chain.

Perhaps this hook only works on suspended chain but I still wonder how one ensures that it is facing the right way. Maybe with 2 dinghies holding the two lines well apart, straddling the likely location of the chain? But then the hook will not be hanging down . . .

Apologies Dockhead, I am a sceptic.

Well, it's worked for me, and plenty of people in these waters, use those hooks. The pattern is very ancient -- I think those hooks have existed since WWII or maybe even earlier.



They are not magic, and maybe don't always work, but I think it's worked every single time I've tried it, over the years. Admittedly a small sample, though.


As to how you align the hook -- very simple -- you have some tension on both lines and hold them apart, so guiding the open jaw side of the hook towards your victim. When you feel whatever it is you are trying to grab, you drop the lower line down so the hook opens towards the chain or cable or whatever. Then you haul on the upper line to capture it. It has worked fine for me, including when trying to grab a chain lying on the seabed. YMMV.


The big advantage of this hook over a grapple anchor (which I also have on board) is that you can release the chain or cable without bringing it to the surface.

[Tonali99]

Originally Posted by carstenb

"Anchor thief?" don't know this expression...................

I never heard of that either. Like some dude in scuba goes around and cuts you free? AND swim away with it?
Really now, the use of an anchor marker there might be a sweel idea.
Better than following the bubbles at night.

[Denny Vitton]

1. The boat name on my yellow float in crowed anchorages will allow other boat owners to know which boat the float belongs too and where my anchor is. A responsible boat owner would then try to obtain info on how many feet of anchor chain I have out etc, etc..
2. No extra floats line is on the surface. A boat would have to run over the float to get tangled. If an adjacent boat floats over my float most responsible boat owner would realize it and take the appropriated action not to get tangled in my float line. Also In the crowed anchorage where I use my float there are many illegal moorings floats without boats attached and many crab pots with floats.
3. Before I started using the float, numerous times in crowed anchorage other boats have dropped their anchor within feet of my anchor or across my chain unknowingly. Since I started using the float in crowed anchorage I have not had any problems nor has any boater got tangled in my float.
4. Remember in many of these anchorage when the wind dies and the tidal currents takes over [two per day] without a good breeze most would be hard pressed to know where theirs or yours anchor is located. This especially true when using all chain anchor line. Please note I always leave my GPS on to assure that my anchor has not moved as well as my anchor alarm is on.
5. So basically I disagree with you assertions that using an anchor float crated a greater hazard.
Do have a great day boating and thanks for your response.

[DanCan]

Originally Posted by Denny Vitton

1.The boat name on my yellow float in crowed anchorages will allow other boat owners to know which boat the float belongs too and where my anchor is. A responsible boat owner would then try to obtain info on how many feet of anchor chain I have out etc, etc..

2.No extra floats line is on the surface. A boat would have to run over the float to get tangled. If an adjacent boat floats over my float most responsible boat owner would realize it and take the appropriated action not to get tangled in my float line. Also In the crowed anchorage where I use my float there are many illegal moorings floats without boats attached and many crab pots with floats.

3.Before I started using the float, numerous times in crowed anchorage other boats have dropped their anchor within feet of my anchor or across my chain unknowingly. Since I started using the float in crowed anchorage I have not had any problems nor has any boater got tangled in my float.

4.Remember in many of these anchorage when the wind dies and the tidal currents takes over [two per day] without a good breeze most would be hard pressed to know where theirs or yours anchor is located. This especially true when using all chain anchor line. Please note I always leave my GPS on to assure that my anchor has not moved as well as my anchor alarm is on.

5.So basically I disagree with you assertions that using an anchor float crated a greater hazard.

Do have a great day boating and thanks for your response.

I’m trying to understand why an anchor float could be hazardous to sailing...

[Tonali99]

Originally Posted by DanCan

I’m trying to understand why an anchor float could be hazardous to sailing...

I am too. Agreed it will tell other boaters the whereabouts of the hook. Give an indication of necessary scope in the anchorage. All good things.
But ... there are many who shouldn't be allowed to play with boats, cars, things that can burn or cell phones just to mention a few. Be wary of them.
*
One of the worst thing I've experienced in a nice anchorage was the jerk on a jetski zipping between the boats like some cafe racer.
Wish he would have hit the bouy.

[Don C L]

Personally I think the major issues come with floats that use way too much line and/or polypro. Polypro is deadly. In fact at the moment I can't think of anything good to say about it. If I were king I'd outlaw it! The hazard is not to sailing per se. The hazard is to the spade rudder that gets snagged, which given enough strain on it can damage it, or to the prop and shaft and strut when the line gets wrapped. But probably worse is the tight anchorage when you're trying to get out when a breeze pipes up, your anchors are up and suddenly your engine quits as you realize you've wrapped up a line on your prop. Or the line is jammed in the spade rudder or partially balanced skeg-hung rudder. (Remember that even heavier line that sinks is not that heavy relative to water's density, so if there is slack it is easy for the prop to suck it in if you have unknowingly drifted right over a buoy, say, at night.) Now, in addition, your prop or rudder is going to take the strain as your boat drifts (maybe dangerously toward rocks) and even if you are quick enough to drop an anchor, it won't take the strain off the prop/shaft/strut, which were not designed to hold the boat's weight of course. Even polypro could be strong enough to do damage before it snaps. Then you gotta grab your mask and snorkel and knife and jump in quick, or around here you might need to get your wetsuit on first. And it might be 3am when this happens. (yeah I had to do that once) Given all that, you can understand why many folks get a lot of angry indigestion when they pull into an anchorage and see floats when people are all on single anchors.
I can see the virtues of buoys in certain limited circumstances, but you'd have to be aware of the hazards, and ensure your line is hanging straight down, weighted to minimize the threat it poses. It might be helpful to let your neighbors know you have weighted your lines to ease their consternation.

[DanCan]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Personally I think the major issues come with floats that use way too much line and/or polypro. Polypro is deadly. In fact at the moment I can't think of anything good to say about it. If I were king I'd outlaw it! The hazard is not to sailing per se. The hazard is to the spade rudder that gets snagged, which given enough strain on it can damage it, or to the prop and shaft and strut when the line gets wrapped. But probably worse is the tight anchorage when you're trying to get out when a breeze pipes up, your anchors are up and suddenly your engine quits as you realize you've wrapped up a line on your prop. Or the line is jammed in the spade rudder or partially balanced skeg-hung rudder. (Remember that even heavier line that sinks is not that heavy relative to water's density, so if there is slack it is easy for the prop to suck it in if you have unknowingly drifted right over a buoy, say, at night.) Now, in addition, your prop or rudder is going to take the strain as your boat drifts (maybe dangerously toward rocks) and even if you are quick enough to drop an anchor, it won't take the strain off the prop/shaft/strut, which were not designed to hold the boat's weight of course. Even polypro could be strong enough to do damage before it snaps. Then you gotta grab your mask and snorkel and knife and jump in quick, or around here you might need to get your wetsuit on first. And it might be 3am when this happens. (yeah I had to do that once) Given all that, you can understand why many folks get a lot of angry indigestion when they pull into an anchorage and see floats when people are all on single anchors.
I can see the virtues of buoys in certain limited circumstances, but you'd have to be aware of the hazards, and ensure your line is hanging straight down, weighted to minimize the threat it poses. It might be helpful to let your neighbors know you have weighted your lines to ease their consternation.

I agree, polypropylene is a major contaminant in the entire world, particularly landfills and oceans. Polypropylene is found almost in all plastic containers and many, many other plastic items thrown (accidentally or not) into oceans. Terrible. But anchor floats made of said plastic as the major cause of contamination? I’m skeptic.
Catching lobster trap lines, old and unused mooring lines, etc. is serious and cause many accidents too. I get that and accidentally getting an anchor float could be a risk as well... I was just skeptic of the whole animosity toward the floats.

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Personally I think the major issues come with floats that use way too much line and/or polypro. Polypro is deadly. In fact at the moment I can't think of anything good to say about it. If I were king I'd outlaw it! The hazard is not to sailing per se. The hazard is to the spade rudder that gets snagged, which given enough strain on it can damage it, or to the prop and shaft and strut when the line gets wrapped. But probably worse is the tight anchorage when you're trying to get out when a breeze pipes up, your anchors are up and suddenly your engine quits as you realize you've wrapped up a line on your prop. Or the line is jammed in the spade rudder or partially balanced skeg-hung rudder. (Remember that even heavier line that sinks is not that heavy relative to water's density, so if there is slack it is easy for the prop to suck it in if you have unknowingly drifted right over a buoy, say, at night.) Now, in addition, your prop or rudder is going to take the strain as your boat drifts (maybe dangerously toward rocks) and even if you are quick enough to drop an anchor, it won't take the strain off the prop/shaft/strut, which were not designed to hold the boat's weight of course. Even polypro could be strong enough to do damage before it snaps. Then you gotta grab your mask and snorkel and knife and jump in quick, or around here you might need to get your wetsuit on first. And it might be 3am when this happens. (yeah I had to do that once) Given all that, you can understand why many folks get a lot of angry indigestion when they pull into an anchorage and see floats when people are all on single anchors.
I can see the virtues of buoys in certain limited circumstances, but you'd have to be aware of the hazards, and ensure your line is hanging straight down, weighted to minimize the threat it poses. It might be helpful to let your neighbors know you have weighted your lines to ease their consternation.

Don, this is sobering, thanks for a good description of the problem with floats and polypro line.

Going back to the value of marking your anchor location with a bouy, I can only come up with three-

1. Marking anchor location to notify other boaters
2. Marking anchor location for your own reference
3. Anchor trip line

Am I missing anything?

My response to the above would be-

1. Marking anchor location to notify other boaters- only necessary in a tiny anchorage where you're the first boat to let later skippers know where not to drop their anchor (knowing it limits their choices, which is desired in this case).

2. Marking anchor location for your own reference- not necessary, add a drop waypoint to your MFD/chart plotter

3. Anchor trip line- not necessary if you use my handy-dandy patented "hidden trip line" (see post #19 of this thread)

Again, on the subject of "marking your anchor location" am I missing something?

[Souzag818]

Originally Posted by DanCan

I’m trying to understand why an anchor float could be hazardous to sailing...

I don't think it's hazardous to sailing. I think it's hazardous to motoring

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by SV__Grace

Don, this is sobering, thanks for a good description of the problem with floats and polypro line.

Going back to the value of marking your anchor location with a bouy, I can only come up with three-

1. Marking anchor location to notify other boaters
2. Marking anchor location for your own reference
3. Anchor trip line

Am I missing anything?

My response to the above would be-

1. Marking anchor location to notify other boaters- only necessary in a tiny anchorage where you're the first boat to let later skippers know where not to drop their anchor (knowing it limits their choices, which is desired in this case).

2. Marking anchor location for your own reference- not necessary, add a drop waypoint to your MFD/chart plotter

3. Anchor trip line- not necessary if you use my handy-dandy patented "hidden trip line" (see post #19 of this thread)

Again, on the subject of "marking your anchor location" am I missing something?

Right and as mentioned earlier it is more acceptable in anchorages where everyone is on 2 hooks since there is no swinging... well, in the anchoring sense anyway

[CassidyNZ]

In the anchorages around us (BOI) and in Auckland, crowding in season is normal with some anchorages hosting literally hundreds of boats. People arrive, assess their required swing area, put down an anchor and relax. In more than a decade of anchoring in these bays, I can’t recall ever seeing a dispute over anchors “colliding”.

If another boat is floating over my anchor when I want to leave, I haul my boat up to his on the chain, fend him off until my anchor comes up. If he’s awake and present he will motor forward to make space. Nobody gets upset, nobody has a problem with the process and nobody puts down an anchor-marking bouy.

The universal rule of last-in-gives-way applies to any possible swing clearance issue.

YMMV.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by SV__Grace

Don, this is sobering, thanks for a good description of the problem with floats and polypro line.

Going back to the value of marking your anchor location with a bouy, I can only come up with three-

1. Marking anchor location to notify other boaters
2. Marking anchor location for your own reference
3. Anchor trip line

Am I missing anything?

My response to the above would be-

1. Marking anchor location to notify other boaters- only necessary in a tiny anchorage where you're the first boat to let later skippers know where not to drop their anchor (knowing it limits their choices, which is desired in this case).

2. Marking anchor location for your own reference- not necessary, add a drop waypoint to your MFD/chart plotter

3. Anchor trip line- not necessary if you use my handy-dandy patented "hidden trip line" (see post #19 of this thread)

Again, on the subject of "marking your anchor location" am I missing something?

I agree with this analysis, but would just add, concerning your #1 -- dropping an anchor float in a tiny anchorage is AWFUL -- you force other boats to stay so far away that they can't swing over your anchor. In crowded anchorages boats DO swing over each other's anchors. This is really piggish behavior. Like dropping crab pots in channels -- same basic idea. If you for some weird reason feel compelled to use a float -- and I don't think there is a single good reason for it -- please do it only in wide open anchorages with enough space for others to steer a wide berth. NOT indeed in "tiny anchorages".



The other issue is your own safety -- you've put your trip line on a float, leaving it out and inviting someone to snag it. Is it visible at night or in the rain? Does no one leave or enter the anchorage at night or in the rain? I have seen more than one case in my cruising life, where someone got tangled in one of these infernal floats, fouled his own prop so losing propulsion, then pulled up the other guy's anchor by the buoyed trip line, creating a massive cluster fumble with multiple slow motion collisions. I've never known an experienced cruiser to use an anchor float except in exceptional cases, if at all. In general I think it's really poor seamanship.

[ABJ87]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

In the anchorages around us (BOI) and in Auckland, crowding in season is normal with some anchorages hosting literally hundreds of boats. People arrive, assess their required swing area, put down an anchor and relax. In more than a decade of anchoring in these bays, I can’t recall ever seeing a dispute over anchors “colliding”.

If another boat is floating over my anchor when I want to leave, I haul my boat up to his on the chain, fend him off until my anchor comes up. If he’s awake and present he will motor forward to make space. Nobody gets upset, nobody has a problem with the process and nobody puts down an anchor-marking bouy.

The universal rule of last-in-gives-way applies to any possible swing clearance issue.

YMMV.

This has also been my experience as well here in the northeast US.

[steve77]

Good morning! As the OP I thought I would thank everyone for their input on my original question.

From the beginning, I was concerned about having propylene line floating on the surface. That’s why I was asking how you adjust the length to prevent this possible danger. I had not thought this through or I would have discarded the idea of polypropylene to start with. I like the idea of using light line with a block at the float and a small weight to self adjust the length of the line marking the anchor.

I’m not sure if I will ever actually mark my anchor location, but if I do this seems to be the best way to do it.

There have been instances when we have entered an anchorage and some of the boats had anchor floats. Personally, I appreciated it since it helped ensure that I did not anchor in a way that would allow me to swing or drift over their anchor. I think that the second boat to anchor has a responsibility to not encroach on the swinging room of boats already anchored. If another boat needs or wishes to raise anchor and leave, I don’t think that I should prevent them from doing so because my boat is in the way. If I know where their anchor is, then I can anchor so that this does not happen.

Cheers!

Steve