Marking your anchor location

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I agree with this analysis, but would just add, concerning your #1 -- dropping an anchor float in a tiny anchorage is AWFUL -- you force other boats to stay so far away that they can't swing over your anchor. In crowded anchorages boats DO swing over each other's anchors. This is really piggish behavior. Like dropping crab pots in channels -- same basic idea. If you for some weird reason feel compelled to use a float -- and I don't think there is a single good reason for it -- please do it only in wide open anchorages with enough space for others to steer a wide berth. NOT indeed in "tiny anchorages".



The other issue is your own safety -- you've put your trip line on a float, leaving it out and inviting someone to snag it. Is it visible at night or in the rain? Does no one leave or enter the anchorage at night or in the rain? I have seen more than one case in my cruising life, where someone got tangled in one of these infernal floats, fouled his own prop so losing propulsion, then pulled up the other guy's anchor by the buoyed trip line, creating a massive cluster fumble with multiple slow motion collisions. I've never known an experienced cruiser to use an anchor float except in exceptional cases, if at all. In general I think it's really poor seamanship.

Hi Dockhead, I'm glad you agree with my analysis and I hope you don't mind if I argue with you a bit.

When I'm the only boat tucked into a tiny anchorage and I have 200 feet of rode out (5:1 scope) and @300 feet to shore on 3 sides, there's not enough room for 2 boats to swing and I don't want some dummy anchoring close to me, and there are lots of dummies out there. In the past year I've chosen to do this twice. I do qualify as "an experienced cruiser" and do judge this to be a situation that is "an exceptional case."

Both situations this past year that I used a float was in tiny coves in the popular San Juan Islands. I've seen boats approach my cove and either leave or anchor further out near the entrance, which still offers protection and gives us both room. While there are lots of dummies out there, I notice PNW boaters are well trained to avoid floating obstacles like mooring balls, crab traps, etc. Sometimes you have to communicate a clear message, and to me this is one of those times.

Are you saying you would never use a float on your anchor, ever?

In an anchorage with a lot of room, it's not needed, though sometimes I wish other skippers would give me more (ahem) "social distance."

Gig Harbor, for example, was a nightmare for me, and while it's a spacious anchorage, it gets crowded on the weekends during the summer with lots of dummies. On July 4th I was surrounded by 3 rafts of huge powerboats 3-5 across, all on one anchor, and 2 of those rafts were within 150 feet of us. Getting our anchor up the next morning was a challenge. With all the beautiful, spacious anchorages here in PNW I will never again go to Gig Harbor during the summer.

To be clear, my hidden trip line (dyneema) is just longer than the depth, attached to the rode (not a float) and sits just above the bottom. It is not a hazard to other boats.

[Souzag818]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

In the anchorages around us (BOI) and in Auckland, crowding in season is normal with some anchorages hosting literally hundreds of boats. People arrive, assess their required swing area, put down an anchor and relax. In more than a decade of anchoring in these bays, I can’t recall ever seeing a dispute over anchors “colliding”.

If another boat is floating over my anchor when I want to leave, I haul my boat up to his on the chain, fend him off until my anchor comes up. If he’s awake and present he will motor forward to make space. Nobody gets upset, nobody has a problem with the process and nobody puts down an anchor-marking bouy.

The universal rule of last-in-gives-way applies to any possible swing clearance issue.

YMMV.

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I agree with this analysis, but would just add, concerning your #1 -- dropping an anchor float in a tiny anchorage is AWFUL -- you force other boats to stay so far away that they can't swing over your anchor. In crowded anchorages boats DO swing over each other's anchors. This is really piggish behavior. Like dropping crab pots in channels -- same basic idea. If you for some weird reason feel compelled to use a float -- and I don't think there is a single good reason for it -- please do it only in wide open anchorages with enough space for others to steer a wide berth. NOT indeed in "tiny anchorages".



The other issue is your own safety -- you've put your trip line on a float, leaving it out and inviting someone to snag it. Is it visible at night or in the rain? Does no one leave or enter the anchorage at night or in the rain? I have seen more than one case in my cruising life, where someone got tangled in one of these infernal floats, fouled his own prop so losing propulsion, then pulled up the other guy's anchor by the buoyed trip line, creating a massive cluster fumble with multiple slow motion collisions. I've never known an experienced cruiser to use an anchor float except in exceptional cases, if at all. In general I think it's really poor seamanship.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by SV__Grace

Hi Dockhead, I'm glad you agree with my analysis and I hope you don't mind if I argue with you a bit.

When I'm the only boat tucked into a tiny anchorage and I have 200 feet of rode out (5:1 scope) and @300 feet to shore on 3 sides, there's not enough room for 2 boats to swing and I don't want some dummy anchoring close to me, and there are lots of dummies out there. In the past year I've chosen to do this twice. I do qualify as "an experienced cruiser" and do judge this to be a situation that is "an exceptional case."

Both situations this past year that I used a float was in tiny coves in the popular San Juan Islands. I've seen boats approach my cove and either leave or anchor further out near the entrance, which still offers protection and gives us both room. While there are lots of dummies out there, I notice PNW boaters are well trained to avoid floating obstacles like mooring balls, crab traps, etc. Sometimes you have to communicate a clear message, and to me this is one of those times.

Are you saying you would never use a float on your anchor, ever?

In an anchorage with a lot of room, it's not needed, though sometimes I wish other skippers would give me more (ahem) "social distance."

Gig Harbor, for example, was a nightmare for me, and while it's a spacious anchorage, it gets crowded on the weekends during the summer with lots of dummies. On July 4th I was surrounded by 3 rafts of huge powerboats 3-5 across, all on one anchor, and 2 of those rafts were within 150 feet of us. Getting our anchor up the next morning was a challenge. With all the beautiful, spacious anchorages here in PNW I will never again go to Gig Harbor during the summer.

To be clear, my hidden trip line (dyneema) is just longer than the depth, attached to the rode (not a float) and sits just above the bottom. It is not a hazard to other boats.

Well, what you describe is aggressive behavior -- you are forcing away boats beyond the distance where it might be safe to anchor. Sure, there might be a rare case where it really is impossible for a second boat to get in, and the float keeps away only idiots who don't understand that, but it's still aggressive behaivior, very much frowned on by most people.


Kudos however on your trip line -- for sure don't put it on a float just inviting someone to trip your anchor.


No, I never use a float on my anchor. Like many people I played with them when I was a beginner, then quickly realized that it was both useless AND rude AND dangerous, and stopped. I haven't had anything like an anchor float on board for decades. They are pretty much unknown in Northern European waters anyway; considered very bad form.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by steve77

. . . . Personally, I appreciated it since it helped ensure that I did not anchor in a way that would allow me to swing or drift over their anchor. I think that the second boat to anchor has a responsibility to not encroach on the swinging room of boats already anchored. If another boat needs or wishes to raise anchor and leave, I don’t think that I should prevent them from doing so because my boat is in the way.. . .

In crowded anchorages, it is inevitable that boats will be swinging over each other's anchors, and there is nothing wrong with that. If everyone anchored so that swinging circles didn't intersect, then a given anchorage could only accomodate 1/4 the number of boats (or whatever the geometry is). In anchorages so uncrowded that this is not a problem, then you don't need floats to know where to anchor to stay that far away.



As others have stated, if you are raising your anchor and find another boat floating above it -- this is absolutely no problem. You just ask the guy to shorten up temporarily or motor ahead, or if he's not in the cockpit, you just gently push him out of the way. Standard procedure and no kind of problem.

[slug]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

In crowded anchorages, it is inevitable that boats will be swinging over each other's anchors, and there is nothing wrong with that. If everyone anchored so that swinging circles didn't intersect, then a given anchorage could only accomodate 1/4 the number of boats (or whatever the geometry is). In anchorages so uncrowded that this is not a problem, then you don't need floats to know where to anchor to stay that far away.



As others have stated, if you are raising your anchor and find another boat floating above it -- this is absolutely no problem. You just ask the guy to shorten up temporarily or motor ahead, or if he's not in the cockpit, you just gently push him out of the way. Standard procedure and no kind of problem.

Normally you just dog off your chain, hit reverse and yank you anchor out of the sea bed

No need for goofy anchor markers

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Well, what you describe is aggressive behavior -- you are forcing away boats beyond the distance where it might be safe to anchor. Sure, there might be a rare case where it really is impossible for a second boat to get in, and the float keeps away only idiots who don't understand that, but it's still aggressive behaivior, very much frowned on by most people.
Kudos however on your trip line -- for sure don't put it on a float just inviting someone to trip your anchor.
No, I never use a float on my anchor. Like many people I played with them when I was a beginner, then quickly realized that it was both useless AND rude AND dangerous, and stopped. I haven't had anything like an anchor float on board for decades. They are pretty much unknown in Northern European waters anyway; considered very bad form.

I think we're like-minded Dockhead. I don't like being aggressive or dictate to other boaters where they can and can't anchor, except when I deem it necessary, which is rare. Idiots and jerks do exist and sometimes you have to look out for #1. I would hope that experienced boaters would understand when conditions call for it and the float is for safety and not meant to be rude to them.

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by slug

Normally you just dog off your chain, hit reverse and yank you anchor out of the sea bed

No need for goofy anchor markers

Exactly.

Whilst it is almost routine in these situations to either nudge the other boat out of the way or get the owner to ease forward (away), if neither of these is simple, just reel in some chain until your rode is at 2:1 and put some energy into reversing.

The anchor will easily lift out with a 2:1 scope. If it doesn’t, refer to nudging/moving noted above.

And I’m with Dockhead on this - I never mark my anchor location. Ever.

[carstenb]

The only reason we've ever marked an anchor is when we have been forced to use both bow and stern anchors as does everyone else in f.eks. Hiva Oa or Ou Pou in Polynesia.

The boats here are so close together that you need to spot where the other boats anchors are while laying out your own stern anchor.

If you have ever come through a crowded anchorage in your dinghy after dark and some idiot has an anchor marker out - really bad news - these are almost impossible to spot in the dark and you'll end up getting it in your dinghy prop.


Worse - try coming into the anchorage in the dark - chances are you'll not see the chlorox bottle or whatever is being used as a float. The fun starts when you have this tied around you prop and possibly have yanked the other fellows anchor out and there are now two boats linked together that are drifting around the anchorage.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by carstenb

. . . Worse - try coming into the anchorage in the dark - chances are you'll not see the chlorox bottle or whatever is being used as a float. The fun starts when you have this tied around your prop and possibly have yanked the other fellows anchor out and there are now two boats linked together that are drifting around the anchorage.

Ha, ha. That's the typical anchor float clown show. I'm afraid to say that I've seen these acted out a few times in my cruising life!

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Ha, ha. That's the typical anchor float clown show. I'm afraid to say that I've seen these acted out a few times in my cruising life!

Unfortunately, so have we and we have jumped in our dinghy and helped untangle these.

We find that these kinds of situations generally leads to the persons involved using language that is not suitable for the delicate ears of the fairer sex.

We did hear one member of the fairer sex whose boat was tangled in a tripline use language that would have embarrassed even a hardened sailor (which just goes to show that the ladies also know those words).

[TackSeason]

Anybody consider a floating poly trip line with a loop on the end that you set to about 5’’ less than the depth? It doesn’t solve your “don’t anchor here” message but it won’t foul any propellers. Mine is reflective so you can easily see it in the water with a flashlight. In the rare occurrence of needing a trip line, I can easily dive 5’ to attach another line.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by TackSeason

Anybody consider a floating poly trip line with a loop on the end that you set to about 5’’ less than the depth? It doesn’t solve your “don’t anchor here” message but it won’t foul any propellers. Mine is reflective so you can easily see it in the water with a flashlight. In the rare occurrence of needing a trip line, I can easily dive 5’ to attach another line.

This is a creative idea, if it really is possible to find that trip line. I suppose if your anchor was stuck to the extent that you needed to use a trip line, then you could just winch up the chain real tight and get the bow right over the anchor, at which point the loop could be found providing the water was rather clear.

And what about allowing for change in depth due to tide? Some parts of the world have clear water but at the same time have some very large tide ranges. One would have to be really careful about adjusting the length of the polypro line so that is was 5' below the surface at low tide. And that could make it 15' below surface at high tide. Might need to put a small brightly colored float on the end of that underwater line so you could find it.

[TackSeason]

Ah, I’m a Great Lakes sailor! I never deal with tides and currents!

[groundtackle]

Originally Posted by TackSeason

Anybody consider a floating poly trip line with a loop on the end that you set to about 5’’ less than the depth? It doesn’t solve your “don’t anchor here” message but it won’t foul any propellers. Mine is reflective so you can easily see it in the water with a flashlight. In the rare occurrence of needing a trip line, I can easily dive 5’ to attach another line.

Um.... my prop is 22” and bottoms out maybe 30” down(just guessing on that might be more)soplease make it shorter than that!
On the other hand a short retrieval line with a float that will remain at least 10-12 feet under will make locating a fouled anchor when diving much easier. Lots of divers will tell you they go to retrieve an anchor for a boat owner and simply can’t locate it in the muck.
Nick

[Thailand Bound]

I'd like to know how your use of an anchor float marker went?
According to all the responses below your question, you're not supposed to do that but I've been doing it for about 25 years.
Maybe it's different in different locations. I'm based in Everett, Washington and I cruise up and down the coast as far south at San Francisco and as far north as Ketchikan. I'm on the east coast in New Bern North Carolina now and I've noticed nobody's doing it and I'm the only one with an anchor ball. And yes I do adjust it for the depth every single time.
The reason I don't understand the responses underneath you and I am by no means a highly experienced sailor. I'm just the occasional cruiser but I don't understand why somebody would say you're being selfish. If somebody can swing their boat over my anchor, they're the ones that are being irresponsible because that means if the winds shift during the night or the current they can swing well within my scope and if my boat doesn't swing as fast as theirs or vice versa, they run the very real risk of a collision. But if they see my anchor ball and they see how much scope I have out they'll know exactly what's going on. And I do run pretty long scope only because I've broke anchor a couple times. At night I try to communicate with everybody that parks in the Anchorage before I go to sleep but a later rival comes and they can see my anchor ball and they can see my boat and they see I've got 50 feet out or 70 ft or whatever I have then they can try to stay at least that far away from my anchor ball so that we won't collide. Does that not make sense?
The reason I'm bringing it up in such an old thread is because it seems to be some people with some pretty extensive experience speaking out against it and I want to know what it is I'm doing wrong and how to fix it? Edit: I'd like to point out I use fishing line to mount the float over my anchor. That way if anybody does swing over my anchor that my ball just breaks away and I typically use really cheap balls. Just FYI