Fitting Anchor on Bow Roller...Ideas?

[brianc]

So I posted earlier in 'Ground tackle upgrade' about getting either a Mantus 35 or Rocna 15 (both similar dimensions) but I took a closer look at the existing bow roller configuration and I need some ideas on how I might fit either of those anchors on the roller when not deployed. I haven't measured to see if either anchor would fit in the locker but just a visual inspection makes me think it's not going to. Attached are three photos of the current setup.

In photo 2, the anchor locker lid is a hatch type with no holes or cutouts for leading the rode out to the roller. So at this point I basically leave the lid resting on the rode at anchor and there isn't any way to lead the end of the shank in to the locker if the anchor was stored on the roller.

The other issue (photo 1) is that the furler was installed really low to the deck and it looks like the angle of the bow roller will leave the shank resting on the side of the furler. So even if I modified the locker lid to accomodate the end of the shank, I don't think moving the furler is going to be an option.

So any other ideas? Is 35lb too heavy to mount on the rail if I can't fit it in the locker?

Thanks, Brian

[Vasco]

The problem is these boats are built for racing and don't really expect owners to have decent ground tackle. They expect you to have the minimum allowable under the rules and stow it in the locker.

Even if you can stow a reasonable sized anchor in the locker it will be a major problem trying to drop it and, in an emergency, it would take a fair bit to get it under the pulpit and over the side.

The alternative is to keep anchor and rode (don't think you'll have a lot of chain) in a big bucket down below and deploy it over the pulpit and then lead the rode back aboard under the pulpit.

[Kashmir cat]

I would see if a Spade S80 would fit in the locker. It's much smaller than a Rocna or Mantus and does not have the hoop on it. You can pick one up for quite a discount if you shop around Ebay or Craigslist nationwide. They come up quite often. The much smaller dimension Spade S80 has beat a Rocna 15 (and about every other similar weight anchor except a fortress) in every independent anchor test I've seen.

[JonJo]

Interesting you seem to have a decent bow roller but no way of having the locker closed with the rode deployed?!

I'd ask the builder of the yacht how it is all meant to work - it looks vaguely like an X-Yacht? They are quality and will surely have an answer. see edit

You can obviously store the anchor on the roller, you might need to drill a couple of holes to secure the anchor - but that's not difficult. Unconventionally, and not the most convenient, you can store the anchor on the bow roller, offset so as not to impede the furler, and attach the rode each time you want to use the anchor.

Longer term it would not be that difficult to modify the locker lid and locker lip to take the chain (a small bit of fibreglass work). You could also consider extending the bow roller such that the shackle end of the shank sits forward of the furler (the chain would then run under the furler).

Another alternative is go for an alloy anchor - which you could store in the locker and deploy by hand. The alloy equivalent would weight in at about 8kg (or a little bit more if you wanted to go one size bigger). You have made no mention of how this is all to be handled - but lifting a 15kg anchor and chain by hand (it might not seem heavy but wait till you need to do it in the rain at 2am) is not a bundle of laughs - windlass?

Personally - I'd extend the bow roller, and work the locker (cut and make up custom made fibreglass inserts) to take the rode permanently attached to the anchor. I'd base my anchor choice on this scenario and live with the inconvenience until I'd made the mods. If I had a big wallet - I'd have someone do it (the mods) for me.

Jonathan

Edit: Sorry - I note its a C&C 99

[brianc]

Thanks for the discussion.


@JonJo - yeah it seems like it wasn't thoroughly thought out, at least not being able to close the locker with the anchor deployed, but whatever, it's what I've got ;-) I'm guessing Vasco is correct about it being designed for minimum ground tackle.

If I were to store the anchor offset on the bow roller and needed to re-attach the rode for each use, what type of shackle or attachment would be the most secure yet still easy to attach?

There are holes in the bow roller already, they're just covered up by the registration stickers - that wouldn't work if it was stored offset.

I currently have a Fortress 16 that does fit in the locker, and I just deploy it by hand. It's pretty lightweight so not an issue but I'm worried about over-nighting on it because of potential re-setting issues with tidal changes. And yes, 15kg is going to be a challenge I think but I'm basing the decision on eventually putting in some kind of windlass.

For extending the roller, would I likely need to have something custom made?

So no love for mounting it on the bow rail above the roller? Something like this... http://mantusanchors.com/mantus-anchor-bracket/

Brian

[Vasco]

I don't think the boat comes with an anchor roller. Yours looks like an add-on and a bit weak. For a good roller remove the stemhead fitting and take to a stainless fabricator. A lot of trouble and expense. Hard to really see from your pics as they're sideways and don't get much bigger. Are you going to seriously anchor with this boat?

[brianc]

It looks like it was an option when the original owner bought the boat...this is the part though there isn't much information.
https://www.c-cparts.com/product/pro...e-bf942cf2f144

I'm not sure what you mean by 'are you going to seriously anchor with this boat?' but yeah, I'm planning to spend a couple nights here and there at anchor or possibly more on a few week trip.

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by brianc

I'm not sure what you mean by 'are you going to seriously anchor with this boat?' but yeah, I'm planning to spend a couple nights here and there at anchor or possibly more on a few week trip.

I meant cruising ie anchoring all the time. The set-up should be ok for weekending as you'll probably do that in decent weather. That boat is light so you could easily get away with a 30# anchor, 30' of chain and the rest nylon. Stow chain and line in locker, Lash anchor very well to roller. Coat your shackle pin with lanolin and shackle your anchor when you're about to anchor. You might want to zip tie it if you're extra cautious.

I had 30' of chain and nylon and a 15 kg Bruce when I first cruised the Bahamas in my 36 ft CS, about 16,000 pound. (this is in the olden days). Also had a cqr knockoff. But you'll be fine for weekending with a Manson Supreme.

[brianc]

Haha! The first time I read the sentence I saw "Are you going to seriously consider anchoring with this boat?"

Anyway, what would be the difference if I was going to be cruising extensively with this boat? Based on the sizing charts provided by the manufacturers I'm erring on the cautious side for the equipment, not counting the bow roller which I just assumed, possibly incorrectly, to be plenty strong.

[roverhi]

The anchor roller looks to have very poor support for a downward pull like you'd get in a rough anchorage. Looks like the first time you anchored with even a moderate sea running the roller would be bent downward and eventually fail all together. Good anchor rollers spread the downward load over a fairly long moment arm with limited unsupported cantilever. YOurs look to be an after thought without much thought put into it for real world anchoring of a cruising boat.

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by brianc

Haha! The first time I read the sentence I saw "Are you going to seriously consider anchoring with this boat?"

Anyway, what would be the difference if I was going to be cruising extensively with this boat? Based on the sizing charts provided by the manufacturers I'm erring on the cautious side for the equipment, not counting the bow roller which I just assumed, possibly incorrectly, to be plenty strong.

I've had another look at your images:

You seem to have some pretty decent fairleads but I cannot see what they 'lead' to. I'm guessing you must have some decent bow horn cleats that I cannot see.

Given what you've got (and what I think you've got) and on the assumption you are not going to Labrador nor Patagonia tomorrow - I'd live with most of what you have. You can hold the anchor on the bow roller as is, secure with rope (or maybe you can get a decent stainless pin/bolt over the top of the shank as well). This needs to hold the anchor so that it cannot be thrown of in chop but not so complex it takes too long to release. I'd have the shackle on the chain, normal bow shackle with a hole in the pin so as you can secure the pin. For overnight stops a decent cable tie, or 2, should suffice (you cut and discard). If you are stopping anywhere for any length of time I'd sieze with wire. If you are using chain and rope deploy anchor, set, deploy as much rode as you think necessary and then bring through the fairlead (this will take the load off the bow roller and onto an intended strong point. If possible, using a prussik knot bring a snubber over the other fairlead - you will then 'centre' the rode on the bow (until you take the anchor in - and then the load will simply be weight of chain and anchor). Basically I'm suggesting setting up a bridle.

Longer term I'd maybe rethink as to whether the bow roller is strong enough and how to attach a windlass. But you can then do all and any mods all at the same time (the windlass will probably need some reinforcing - unless the reinforcing is built in).

I'm not sure about the strength of the bow roller but short term, as you are comfortable to deploy and retrieve by hand, then what you have looks perfectly adequate - though I'd use the fairleads as even the wash from a passing hoodlum can put unnecessary load on a bow roller. I'm not aware of any safe and quick release alternative to a shackle (but you must seize each time). You'll need an anchor kit, snips for the seizing and replacement 'seizes' + gloves.

When you get round to the windlass I might suggest you go smaller on chain size and go for G70 - this will mean you can carry more chain, the windlass can be a bit smaller and the power drain lower. If you want to step outside your current cruising area - you might need an all chain rode. But that's something to keep in the back of your mind as you mull over what to do about a windlass.


Now the replacement anchor - that's a whole new can of worms! But keep the Fortress!

Jonathan

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by brianc

Anyway, what would be the difference if I was going to be cruising extensively with this ? boat Based on the sizing charts provided by the manufacturers I'm erring on the cautious side for the equipment, not counting the bow roller which I just assumed, possibly incorrectly, to be plenty strong.

First as others have stated the bow roller is inadequate, too long, too flimsy. I think a good strain on it would split it. Second I don't think your cleats are adequate. Third, the leads are not fair. It's just not the size of the anchor it's the whole system.

When cruising, ground tackle is one of the most important things on the boat. Sometimes you have to anchor in less than ideal conditions. Other time a quick wind shift might put you on a lee shore. You have to respond rapidly in these circumstances. Maybe more rode, maybe weigh anchor and move, re-anchor someplace else.


Here's a pic of my boat. It came with only one bow roller and I had another one fabricated on the stemhead fitting. The second pic is a buddy's boat at anchor during a frontal passage. It's in the Bahamas and luckily there is no swell in this anchorage, just wind driven chop.

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by Vasco

First as others have stated the bow roller is inadequate, too long, too flimsy. I think a good strain on it would split it. Second I don't think your cleats are adequate. Third, the leads are not fair. It's just not the size of the anchor it's the whole system.

When cruising, ground tackle is one of the most important things on the boat. Sometimes you have to anchor in less than ideal conditions. Other time a quick wind shift might put you on a lee shore. You have to respond rapidly in these circumstances. Maybe more rode, maybe weigh anchor and move, re-anchor someplace else.


Here's a pic of my boat. It came with only one bow roller and I had another one fabricated on the stemhead fitting. The second pic is a buddy's boat at anchor during a frontal passage. It's in the Bahamas and luckily there is no swell in this anchorage, just wind driven chop.

If that is an all chain rode (its too far away to see), in the Bahamas, your friend is not using a snubber. Though there does seem to be a strange 'rope?' looped and then hanging vertically a little way along the rode - but unclear.

For weekend overnighting where forecasts are good and in local waters (where you know all the shelter etc) - and can go home if the weather is really grotty, the gear on brianc's yacht will be adequate - provided precautions are taken (as posted). I'm guessing this a popular yacht, correct me if its a one off, and is used by many overnight without issue and with the gear illustrated. We need to get a sense of realism and proportion - no not for anchorages bordering The Great Southern Ocean - but the yacht is hardly designed for that anyway.

Jonathan

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by JonJo

If that is an all chain rode (its too far away to see), in the Bahamas, your friend is not using a snubber. Though there does seem to be a strange 'rope?' looped and then hanging vertically a little way along the rode - but unclear.


Jonathan

That strange rope is what's left of his snubber after it snapped. Probably not long enough for the conditions. They had guests aboard and the guests got seasick. All chain, 45 or 46 Gulfstar.

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by JonJo

I'm guessing this a popular yacht, correct me if its a one off, and is used by many overnight without issue and with the gear illustrated. We need to get a sense of realism and proportion - no not for anchorages bordering The Great Southern Ocean - but the yacht is hardly designed for that anyway.

Jonathan

We have five or six of these in our club. All used for racing only. Never leave the dock otherwise. Never seen an anchor on them but I'm sure there's one aboard.