Convert Windlass to Hydraulic - Anyone done this?

[Fuss]

I would like to remove the 24v motor and gearbox from my windlass and make an adapter for a hydraulic motor which would attach directly to the gypsy shaft.
The hydraulic motor I had in mind would be a low speed high torque geroler type motor 120cc? per revolution of something similar. This would be powered by a 24v motor onto a 10 lpm, 140 bar hydraulic pump (i'm guessing here as I could imagine 10 lpm would provide enough chain retrieval speed at say 100bar) controlled by 2 24v reversing valves.

This way, i could use the existing wires for connection onto the hydraulic pump and the existing down/up wires for connection onto the valves.

The remote would then work as before.

If you have some experience of this especially with the sizing between the hydraulic pump and the hydraulic motor, then this would be very interesting.

If I could get the pump sizing right then I could pull my anchor up in 35 knot winds without needing to motor up to the anchor, a huge advantage when single handing.

Has anyone any experience or tried this out?
John

[Kenomac]

John,

I’m presently dealing with windlass hydraulic pump/motor issues on our 62 which have been ongoing. Which model boat, windlass and anchor weight are you working with? Our hydaulic Lewmar presently comes up way too slow.

Ken

[Eigenvector]

I can help you out by doing the calculations. It's not tough, I counld work you up a trade off spreadsheet. I just need a little bit of info. Just PM me.


One issue that may come up however is the location of the sprag (over running clutch) that allows you to manually opperate independent of the motor. If this is in the gearbox and not the head it might be a deal breaker.

[Cheechako]

It's pressure vs displacement. The more the pump displaces the faster the hydraulic motor will run under load right? Unfortunately, the more the pump displaces the more HP needed.
I'm not sure this ever makes sense though. You're replacing one electric motor with:
-another electric motor,
-valves,
-fittings
-pump and etc. What could possibly go wrong!

My hydraulics maintenance people in a 200,000 sq ft facility used to have a saying: "if it ain't leaking, it ain't hydraulic"
I have installed hydraulic systems on a few fishing boats. They all leak a bit.

[Eigenvector]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

It's pressure vs displacement. The more the pump displaces the faster the hydraulic motor will run under load right?

Almoth there.............


Both the pump and motor have associated displacements per revolution. Thus you have an effective gear ratio depending on the paring of pump to motor.

[Kenomac]

Another more important issue for the OP, by switching over to hydraulic won’t allow him to use the windlass alone to pull up the anchor on a windy day. Althought hydraulic will have much more torque, he will still need to motor forward.

I use both electric and hydraulics for windlass, each has it’s unique issues. Without additional information from the OP, I can’t make any recommendations. Things aren’t as simple as switching one motor for another.

[Traumagas]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

It's pressure vs displacement. The more the pump displaces the faster the hydraulic motor will run under load right? Unfortunately, the more the pump displaces the more HP needed.
I'm not sure this ever makes sense though. You're replacing one electric motor with:
-another electric motor,
-valves,
-fittings
-pump and etc. What could possibly go wrong!

My hydraulics maintenance people in a 200,000 sq ft facility used to have a saying: "if it ain't leaking, it ain't hydraulic"
I have installed hydraulic systems on a few fishing boats. They all leak a bit.

K

[MartinR]

I have worked a lot with hydraulics. I can see no advantage in this setup. If more torque is needed, it is much easier to change to a stronger electric motor or change the gear ratio. There is nothing free here. The Watts you put in provide the power to heave. You do not get more power by letting the electric motor drive 2 hydraulics pumps. Electric motors have plenty of Torque anyhow, from 0 to full speed. Just a question of power.

[Kenomac]

There’s one significant advantage hydraulics has over an electric windlass; there’s much less chance of the hydraulic pump electric motor overheating and shutting down over an all electric set up. Provided everything is functioning and sized properly.

[MartinR]

That is correct, but not in the suggested setup.

[mvmojo]

If you're looking for more power, upgrade the motor. I went from a 1/2 hp electric to a 3/4 hp motor and have never looked back. I would not go the hydraulic route, too much opportunity for on-going maintenance!

[MartinR]

The boat I have now was originally built with central hydraulics, driving 8 of 14 winches, both furlers, the windlass and I guess the vangs also. Now all is gone, except the gearboxes on the winches and hydraulic hoses everywhere. I guess that after a few years the system just was too maintenance intensive. Hydraulic hoses need to be replaced every 5 years or so if you do not want to risk a rupture. Also, small leaks develop and need to be fixed. The pressure release valve that protects the system need to be adjusted and maintained and so on.

An upgraded electric motor is both cheaper and easier. Also electric motors should be protected from overheating by a motor protector switch. It fills the same function as the bypass on the hydraulics, but depending on type, needs to be reset if motor stalls.

[JOHNMARDALL]

Hello John,


Almost all of our windlasses are available with electric or hydraulics motors, with output shafts on the motors machined to fit the input shaft of the windlass gearbox, however, there are complications, and I encourage DIY installers not to attempt hydraulics - they just take a lot more specialized knowledge and training than electrical equipment. So:
1. Do you have a PTO on an engine or gearbox on which to mount a hydraulic pump?
2. Do you have a space for a reservoir tank, near and slightly above the pump location?
3. You're probably going to be best served by a variable displacement, load sensing piston pump. Some versions of that type of pump can be controlled electrically, but most will have a load sensing hose line going back to the valve block.
4. You still won't be able to put any more power and torque through the windlass gearbox than it is rated for. If you've got a windlass with a large gearbox (quite possible) you may be able to run more power through it, but if that is the case, it will be much less expensive and less troublesome to simply change out the electric motor.


All of this should be done in consultation with your windlass manufacturer, who will help you to avoid busting the windlass and the bank.


Good luck
John Mardall
Vetus Maxwell Boat Equipment

[Mediator]

Are you sure that the windlass gypsy has the strength to pull the boat around like you are envisioning? The original gypsy, mounting to the deck, etc. was probably designed with the small electric motor in mind. Ripping the windlass out of the deck as you try to pull your boat in a gale would really wreck your day.

[KeelMe]

Why oh Why do people find it necessary to overcomplicate their boats.