Anchor Rodes and Restless Nights

[motion30]

I have a 34' trawler app weight of 20,000 The boat came to me with a 45lb danforth anchor and 200' of 5/8'' nylon rode no chain. This worked well on sandy bottoms and usually set quickly but on my first ICW trip I had problems when the tide changed and it did not reset well. Ok cant have that, so bought a 45' manson surpreme still no chain as I retrieve by hand, no windless. This setup seems to work well in sand but back in the chesapeake mostly mud and has dragged several times on me, so not great when a good night rest is needed. Ok I know what the next step is which brings me to my question, 99% of the time I anchor in less then 10' of water so should I buy 50' of 5-16'' chain or 25'of 3/8 chain My thought of using the 25'of 3/8'' is that I usually would not use much more scope then 40' or so and the 3/8' would allow more weight on the bottom and I can still cleat off with the nylon with no need for a snubber. Does the chain really make that much of a difference? Of course I still need to get all back in the boat by hand as I am not planning for a windless . this boat sails around at anchor like an amusement ride when using lots of scope and some wind

[zeehag]

i would go with 100 ft, as that is what my ericson has andis comfy at anchor with that--- i was anchored with a friends boat in fairly shallow water with only 30 ft of 3/8 chain and that always dragged.....also the 100 ft will help protect the rope rode in coral and other rough stuff.

[swagman]

With either rope or chain, if you need to get a decent sized anchor up in a serious blow, you'd struggle without a windlass.
IMHO rethink the budget and if limited, get a manual windlass. Then add the heaviest chain you can manage.
I guarantee it will make a big difference.
Cheers
JOHN

[zeehag]

i am able to raise a 45 pound cqr and 100 ft of 5/16 chain by hand --isnt easy, isnt hard(iam early 60s and female)--- but is about right for your boat---my 28000pound formosa has 200 ft 5/16 and 45 pound cqr and i sleep well at night on anchor--- but i do have a manual windlass-is a good thing to have--at least place a winch in a good spot for raising anchor-- sailboats have mast winches-- you may have to place something somewhere convenient for doing th e heavy work of lifting that heavy stuff off the bottom.

[psneeld]

45 pound danforth is PLENTY for that boat in any blow...the trick is to get it to set...yes more chain the better...doesn't have to be big chain...just that it weighs more than rope so chain is much better.

100 feet good...but I prefer anchors that set fast and surely with minimum scope like a Bruce, Delta or any of the newer ones that you get to work and trust...trust being the important part.

[Pyxis156]

Originally Posted by motion30

I have a 34' trawler app weight of 20,000... a 45' manson surpreme

For purposes of comparison when reading my response, I have a 37' sailboat that weighs in around 18,000 lbs fully loaded and we use a 55 lb. Rocna, so somewhat comparable to the anchor you are now using.

Originally Posted by motion30

This setup seems to work well in sand but back in the chesapeake mostly mud and has dragged several times on me...

I went with the 55 lb. anchor because the anchor blade area is about 30% greater than the next size down (which was the recommended size). This may be something to consider if you find yourself dragging in soft mud as the larger blade area should help in that respect. My brother has a house on the Northern Neck of Virginia and we boat a lot out on the Chesapeake when I visit so I am familiar with what you are talking about anchoring condition wise.

One thought about your soft mud, I don't know how much scope you put out when setting your anchor but it seems to me you would want to let out quite a bit so when you back down on your anchor to set it you maximize the ability of the anchor to dig down into the mud. Too little scope and the anchor will be pulled up towards the boat and may never get the opportunity to get deep enough to hit thicker mud. Then once set, you can bring in some of the rode to whatever scope you ultimately want.

Originally Posted by motion30

...which brings me to my question, 99% of the time I anchor in less then 10' of water so should I buy 50' of 5-16'' chain or 25'of 3/8 chain My thought of using the 25'of 3/8'' is that I usually would not use much more scope then 40' or so and the 3/8' would allow more weight on the bottom and I can still cleat off with the nylon with no need for a snubber.

This is the approach I took. I spent a lot of time with an anchor rode calculator and realized that if you know your typical anchoring depth, you could plan accordingly and using less but heavier chain gave you the benefits of all chain from a caternary standpoint. Since we typically anchor in deeper water where I am (15-30', sometimes more) I went with 75' of 3/8" chain and then 400' of 5/8" nylon rode. This way, even in only 15' of water (the least I typically anchor in) I can put out all of my 75' of chain plus 10-15' of nylon rode as a snubber and tie off with just over 5:1 scope. Any deeper or higher winds calling for more scope and I just let out more rode, no problem. The 75' of 3/8" chain weighs 120 lbs, which is approximately what 108' of 5/16" chain would weigh. This way, I have the benefit of the chain out near the anchor where you want it improving the effects of caternary.

Originally Posted by motion30

Does the chain really make that much of a difference?

Again, look at the website in the link above and come to your own conclusions as far as the benefits vs. downsides of all-chain. I will say that by using nylon rode you must be more aware of chafe, but since you are already using all nylon rode you are aware of that. Typically my chain will be on the bottom and the nylon portion of the rode doesn't sit on the bottom so that hasn't been an issue for me. However, I do use chafe protection at the roller and the tie-off point.

Originally Posted by motion30

...this boat sails around at anchor like an amusement ride when using lots of scope and some wind

So does our boat, and unfortunately when the wind picks up I increase scope exacerbating the problem. Haven't found a good solution to this one yet, am going to experiment with a riding sail this year.

Hope this helps.

[David M]

When you say no chain do you literally mean no chain at all?

At the very least you want one boat lengths worth of chain. This will help prevent the bottom from chafing the rode and it will add more horizontal angle to the pull on your anchor.

[djmarchand]

Hmm, you usually anchor with only 40' of scope? I have never anchored with less than 75' and usually more.

Your bow roller is probably 5' above the water. So to have even a minimal (and I do consider it minimal) 5:1 scope ratio that means you can only anchor in 3' water depth- 40/(5+3)= 5. No wonder you dragged.

As others have said, install at least 50' of chain, preferably 100' so 90% of the time you are using all chain. 5/16" is fine. If you can't lift it, get a windlass.

BTW, not to start an anchor war, but the 45# Manson Supreme is a good choice for your boat. But it needs scope and some chain weight to work right.

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by zeehag

i am able to raise a 45 pound cqr and 100 ft of 5/16 chain by hand --isnt easy, isnt hard(iam early 60s and female)off the bottom.

Whoa !!


Oh, a windlass! (bubble in my imagination just deflated)
I should have read the whole post before posting.
I imagined a female version of AHNOLD.

[motion30]

Originally Posted by djmarchand

Hmm, you usually anchor with only 40' of scope? I have never anchored with less than 75' and usually more.

Your bow roller is probably 5' above the water. So to have even a minimal (and I do consider it minimal) 5:1 scope ratio that means you can only anchor in 3' water depth- 40/(5+3)= 5. No wonder you dragged.

As others have said, install at least 50' of chain, preferably 100' so 90% of the time you are using all chain. 5/16" is fine. If you can't lift it, get a windlass.

BTW, not to start an anchor war, but the 45# Manson Supreme is a good choice for your boat. But it needs scope and some chain weight to work right.

Saturday night I was in a small anchorage I frequency use where 75' of scope would have either put me on shore or into another boat but all was calm except for the tide What to do then?
I retrieve manually and chain is hard on the hand. I was trying to get away with no chain, thought the oversized mason might just do it. So the next step is the chain. and I will wear gloves

[redcobra]

In the Chesapeake I use a Danforth hi-tensile with 6' of chain and 5/8" nylon rode and use a 7:1 Scope. Boat weighs 18k lbs. Never had a problem.

[motion30]

Originally Posted by redcobra

In the Chesapeake I use a Danforth hi-tensile with 6' of chain and 5/8" nylon rode and use a 7:1 Scope. Boat weighs 18k lbs. Never had a problem.

My danforth held great until the dead of the night when the tide changes as It did not always reset

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by motion30

Saturday night I was in a small anchorage I frequency use where 75' of scope would have either put me on shore or into another boat but all was calm except for the tide What to do then?
I retrieve manually and chain is hard on the hand. I was trying to get away with no chain, thought the oversized mason might just do it. So the next step is the chain. and I will wear gloves

Double anchor...good anchor 20 feet of chain then another anchor, then your 40 feet. But in all reality... you have to add the height of your bow roller to the water depth then multiply by at LEAST 5 for a danforth style anchor...better 7 and maybe 10:1 in bad weather.

If that is more rode than swinging room...bad spot for you to anchor unless you get fancy with 2 anchors or a very heavy sentinel.

[ReMetau]

I also suggest the chain to help with horizontal pull and definitely chafe protection. You could try using a sentinel to help with the horizontal pull, but you also need to increase your scope especially with all nylon rode.

[Surrymark]

You'll find 10,000 posts about anchors on various forums, including plenty of dragging or not resetting danforth-type anchors – though they once were the standard. I'd look to a new anchor, as well as an appropriate rode. Personally, I'm sticking with Rocna, because it has never failed in conditions where I've had to work to stay stuck with fluke anchors. I think that Rocna, and maybe Manson sizing tables are on the conservative side. If you're anchoring with room to swing a 4: or 5: or even 7:1 ratio, you should stay stuck for a good deep sleep.