Anchor Balls

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by David Mathis

We routinely use an anchor ball, one of the plastic ones that are two piece and stow flat. The only problem with our powerboat is it has no rigging from which to fly the ball. I called the Coast Guard to ask for a solution and was told to do the best we can to hang it as high as practical so we hang it from the bow rail when we have wind and from the antenna if conditions are calm. Occasionally, someone will ask what it is. Perhaps it should be mentioned in the boating safety courses.

I have the same issue on my boat. We have fender holders on the bow, so a boat hook with the anchor ball attached stands nicely between the fender holders and the bow rail. That gets the ball up about 6 feet above the deck and it's sturdy enough to survive at least 30 kts of wind (I don't think we've ever been anchored in more than that).

[auwekamanu]

Except in marked anchorages…

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by auwekamanu

Except in marked anchorages…

The exemption in the US is for special anchorages, not anything marked on the chart as an anchorage. There aren't actually all that many special anchorages out there compared to places where people anchor.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by David Mathis

We routinely use an anchor ball, one of the plastic ones that are two piece and stow flat. The only problem with our powerboat is it has no rigging from which to fly the ball. I called the Coast Guard to ask for a solution and was told to do the best we can to hang it as high as practical so we hang it from the bow rail when we have wind and from the antenna if conditions are calm. Occasionally, someone will ask what it is. Perhaps it should be mentioned in the boating safety courses.

Some of the boats here (in Oz) re-purpose a flag stick or an old broom handle, and put it in their forwardmost fender mount, or to the bow. Often, hose clamps are used, or seizing wire, to hold the "ball" to the stick.

And some don't bother, too. Use of the anchor ball is becoming more common here, however slowly.

Ann

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Observations:

- those who don’t know about anchor balls don’t have certification

- those who don’t understand why signals are used don’t have certification

- those who find it silly to use day signs don’t have certification

- those who state they will never use day signs don’t have certification

Maybe it’s not Colregs but lack of certification?

Only if you can also say that ALL those with certifications are that way. Otherwise, it's identical to the US -- some US sailors do it, some don't.


But it's more likely a result of custom. Many of us in the US are very aware of the rules, but like never exceeding the speed limit on highways, are a bit lax in following all of them.


While I have an anchor ball and a steaming cone, I've never used one. I'm a qualified Navy Surface Warfare Officer, so I pretty much am "certified." But like some, I see very little value in it -- how is an anchored boat making no way, but with no ball, significantly different than a boat underway not making way (no wind, or broken engine, or just eating lunch)? How, in real practical terms, is another boat going to behave differently between a boat not moving and boat anchored? If it is a "crossing" situation, and he sees my starboard side (ie, he is stand on), then he is justified for crashing into me when I didn't move?


And a curious corollary. If I don't have my anchor down (so am underway) and don't have my engine on (so am not a power boat) and don't have my sails up (so am not a powerboat), where do I fit in the hierarchy? Rule 18 doesn't address a vessel adrift -- and a vessel anchored with no ball could only be confused with a vessel adrift (not with a vessel under power).

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by gbillman

It's not about safety. It's about legal ramifications regarding insurance and liability.

Sadly, this is probably the smartest thing said in this thread. It is NOT about safety -- it's about lawyers.

[GOMariner]

No Engine - not Under sail and Adrift -Not under Command
Lights Red over Red ( the Captain is dead )or Day signals Two black Balls in a vertical line with side lights and stern light

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by GOMariner

No Engine - not Under sail and Adrift -Not under Command
Lights Red over Red ( the Captain is dead )or Day signals Two black Balls in a vertical line with side lights and stern light

Nope, Not Under Command "means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to maneuver as required by these Rules."


I often am adrift. Raising anchor, my wife and I will sometimes both be on the foredeck, cleaning, and stowing and slowly drifting downwind. I'll often drop sails and put them away, ensuring all lines are out of the water and clear before I even start the engine (conditions permitting, of course). This is not "some exceptional circumstance." For us, it's all in a day's work.


But, if a speed boat comes around the bend, straight at us, are we give way, or stand on? Even if we are stand on, it would behoove us to get way on post haste. But, until we do, we are essentially indistinguishable from an anchored boat (but not anchored).

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

While I have an anchor ball and a steaming cone, I've never used one. I'm a qualified Navy Surface Warfare Officer, so I pretty much am "certified."


and a vessel anchored with no ball could only be confused with a vessel adrift (not with a vessel under power).

I cannot find "vessel adrift" in my copy of ColRegs, citation please.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

Nope, Not Under Command "means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to maneuver as required by these Rules."


I often am adrift. Raising anchor, my wife and I will sometimes both be on the foredeck, cleaning, and stowing and slowly drifting downwind. I'll often drop sails and put them away, ensuring all lines are out of the water and clear before I even start the engine (conditions permitting, of course). This is not "some exceptional circumstance." For us, it's all in a day's work.
.

I'd consider captain and crew being too busy to maintain a proper watch an "exceptional circumstance".

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I cannot find "vessel adrift" in my copy of ColRegs, citation please.

I think you misunderstood me. I am, in colloquial jargon, "adrift" if I have no means of forward motion. However, as you have pointed out, COLREGS do not address this situation. Is a vessel with no engine running and no sails up assumed to be a power driven vessel? Or a sail boat (its sole motion is that which the wind provides)?


Sure, I can (and should!) start my engine, but until I do what am I? In the same way, a sailboat barely moving in 1 kt of wind is fully expected to start their engine and maneuver out of the way of a power boat that is not giving way (yes, I've seen a sailboat literally run over by a charter boat, and found partially at fault for failure to use their engine), but until they start their engine they are a sailboat and are stand-on.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I'd consider captain and crew being too busy to maintain a proper watch an "exceptional circumstance".

How did you infer "too busy to maintain a proper watch?" I didn't imply that I am unaware of my surroundings, or of other boats. I didn't imply that I can't get to the helm, start the engine (or place it in gear), and begin maneuvering in under 30 seconds.


COLREGS is, in part, about ensuring that every boat take immediate and clear action to avoid collision. But more, it's about ensuring that there is some agreement on who is first responsible for that action. Yes, every boat that sees any other boat COULD immediately alter course -- but that would be highly confusing. So, we for instance set fishing boats near the top, sailing vessels further down, and power boats near the bottom of then list. It sets a framework. But until I place that engine in gear, I am not clearly in any category in Rule 18.



However, it seems that you view my asking this question as an example of my lack of competence. Since the answer is clear to you, can you share it?

[bergius]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

Sadly, this is probably the smartest thing said in this thread. It is NOT about safety -- it's about lawyers.

Why not both? Safety is never about a single thing, you always want multiple layers between yourself and harm.

In case of the anchor ball, it is another indicator that will help other vessels to understand what the state of your vessel is. They might see the chain, they may have monitored you on AIS for a while and see that you're not moving. Or they might first realise that you're not going to give way by seeing the day mark.

It's not a huge hassle to set the anchor ball up for that additional chance for avoiding trouble (of either kinetic or legal sort).

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

How did you infer "too busy to maintain a proper watch?" I didn't imply that I am unaware of my surroundings, or of other boats. I didn't imply that I can't get to the helm, start the engine (or place it in gear), and begin maneuvering in under 30 seconds.


COLREGS is, in part, about ensuring that every boat take immediate and clear action to avoid collision. But more, it's about ensuring that there is some agreement on who is first responsible for that action. Yes, every boat that sees any other boat COULD immediately alter course -- but that would be highly confusing. So, we for instance set fishing boats near the top, sailing vessels further down, and power boats near the bottom of then list. It sets a framework. But until I place that engine in gear, I am not clearly in any category in Rule 18.



However, it seems that you view my asking this question as an example of my lack of competence. Since the answer is clear to you, can you share it?

No thanks, it would be a waste of time, you'll just come up with some more offside justifications for not following ColRegs.

[rslifkin]

When pulling the anchor up, I generally leave the ball up until we've hit the point where we can safely maneuver. Depending on the situation I may consider that when the anchor is off the bottom, but typically I consider that when it hits the roller. At that point we can safely start to move with no significant restrictions while I get the final rinsing done, tie the anchor down, etc. so I take the ball down (or signal the admiral to switch from anchor light to nav lights).