All Chain Rode . . . Overkill ?

[kiper204]

We use all chain. Love knowing all that heavy chain is lying down there. Just our preference. We also use an anchor marker, so we always know exactly where it is. We havent slipped yet, and that makes me sleep better at night

[markpierce]

I'd think a chain about the length of the boat would do well in most circumstances, with nylon for the remainder of the rode. Due to the weight of chain, my "rule" would be: the smaller the boat the greater ratio of nylon to chain.

[John A]

I selected my anchor combination for a worst case scenario. I wanted the shank of the anchor to remain parallel to the sea floor while my 12 ton boat rode out 50 knot winds with my bow sprit pitching in a 3 foot chop. This happened several times, once in Simpson Bay Lagoon on a clear February afternoon.
Remember, everything you own is hanging off that anchor!!
I used 300ft of 5/16 HT chain with an upgraded 45# bruce. If I was going to leave the boat unattended I put out at least 7:1 scope. Twice I used ny secondary anchor of 50 feet of 5/16 chain and 250 feet of 5/8" rope and a 45# delta.
There were a few times I drug, mostly from a poor anchor set.

[craigsmith]

Originally Posted by Mark Zarley

I do not get the argument over saving 100 lbs of bow weight, I mean that is the weight of a middle age boy. What do you have below decks forward that is not essential? Your anchors holding depends on that chain staying on the bottom. And so do you. Just sayin

It doesn't though does it, any rational look at that topic will inform you that most any rode will be straightened as near as makes no difference bar taut before a half decent anchor will drag.

Weight in the pointy end of any boat is bad for performance. No sailor likes it. More chain than you need is just pointless. Particularly, using weak BBB / proof coil / G30 requires heavier chain for the same strength - again, inefficient. Use at least G40 / high test.

Originally Posted by John A

I selected my anchor combination for a worst case scenario. I wanted the shank of the anchor to remain parallel to the sea floor while my 12 ton boat rode out 50 knot winds with my bow sprit pitching in a 3 foot chop.

It's not going to happen. You have been misled about the physics involved. That line will go near straight, the only thing that will help you is adequate scope.

Originally Posted by John A

There were a few times I drug, mostly from a poor anchor set.

cfarrar has the right idea, as hopefully does the OP.

~





Catenary & Scope In Anchor Rode: Anchor Systems For Small Boats

[rebel heart]

Originally Posted by cfarrar

My understanding is that chain rode is for durability, not strength or holding power.

It significantly affects holding power. The heavier the rode, the more the tug on the anchor will be horizontal, thereby digging in further and not pulling up. You will quickly make a few hundred feet of nylon diagonal from boat to anchor in a strong wind, causing a more vertical pull on your anchor.

Dive a boat at anchor with chain, and another with nylon in the same conditions with the same scope (or even more from the nylon), and you'll see a pile of chain on the bottom so that any tug will go horizontal, versus nylon which sort of dances around in the water.

[John A]

Craigesmith,
I think I mentioned on another thread that it was useless to discuss Politics, Religion, or which anchoring system is best for all conditions.

I don't think I was misled, rather I stated what I was comfortable with in 25 years of sailing 10 of those years cruising and living at anchor. Your experience may vary, I can handle that.

Scope is indeed the only thing that will save you and I have routinely used more than 10:1 scope, I've had the chain so straight that the boat shuddered with the strain. I've been in conditions where I ran the engine at 2000 rpm to halp the chain hold my boat, it was raining so hard that I used my facemask and snorkel while topside.

From those pictures I'd suggest a snubber of some kind on that chain to keep the strain and vibration from damaging the anchor windless. The only thing holding your boat is two shear pins on the shaft of the windless.
John

[sailorboy1]

Not sure if over the years of reading the anchor threads I've learned anything because in the end there doesn't appear to be any agreeable answer. But I have read/learned enough to base my own decision on "something", which I'm going to keep to myself. So they have been worth the time to have read.

But the passion that develops over the topic sure approaches religion and politic levels.

[Irie]

I just did almost the same. 300' 1/4"HT chain with 35lb CQR and a new Maxwell 1500 windlass for my 30' Nonsuch. Also found a real nice clip on snubber for 1/4 chain made by Wichard.
Made no difference in the trim btw, in fact I need to move more weight forward.

[SvenG]

Originally Posted by rebel heart

I've been in too many arguments on the Internet to have another one. Have fun.

You made the right decision and I'll stop reading this thread too. Too bad, it actually was an interesting discussion for a while.

"Arrogance is knowledge" was the expression someone coined in another forum and it sure applies here.



-Sven

[Vasco]

Hey I'm getting in this late but having used 50' of chain and nylon for 12 years and then going to all chain I'll stick with all chain and a good snubber. In the foto the boat behind me has snapped his snubber as it was too short.

[lancelot9898]

Originally Posted by SvenG

"Arrogance is knowledge" was the expression someone coined in another forum and it sure applies here.

-Sven

After reading some of these posts from a so called "expert", I sure agree with that statement.

I use BBB chain(spliced to nylon rode) and while you need to upgrade the size to obtain the same strength as high test, I prefer it since the links are shorter and less prone to binding and to my understanding the failure mode will show deformation prior to failure whereas the high test is more prone to sudden breakage. I have one observation from anchoring under severe conditions and that is the more nylon rode being used the more the sling shot effect will be felt in wind gusts.

[colemj]

Originally Posted by SvenG

"Arrogance is knowledge" was the expression someone coined in another forum and it sure applies here.

On both sides of this, I would say. To dismiss someone's argument because you don't agree with it is arrogance, if not hubris.

No one made the argument that, at lesser wind conditions, nylon has the same cantenary as chain. In these conditions, the anchor is holding the boat regardless of the type of rode or amount of cantenary induced in it.

When the wind picks up to a level most of us become concerned about, the chain and nylon WILL have the same cantenary effect on your anchor's holding power - none, they both will be straight. The pictures from two different posters showed this clearly without the need to don a mask and snorkel. At this point, you are relying solely on scope to present a proper pull angle to the anchor shank and any elasticity in your rode to absorb shock.

In conditions between no wind and OMG, the effect on the anchor from the cantenary of all chain rode will be matched by the elasticity of the nylon rode. The calculations for this are readily available and links to them have been presented in this thread. Of course, you are free to disagree with the math and physics using your own reasoning and data, and doing so will be very welcomed in these discussions.

I can think of many reasons why an all chain primary rode is preferable (it is what we use), as well as why a combination rode would be preferable (it is what we used to use in different cruising grounds). Each has its place in relevant situations and styles. None of those reasons have to do with keeping the anchor set in difficult weather.

You two (and anyone else) certainly have the right to disagree with posters, and to stop following this thread altogether, but you don't have the right to denigrate someone's reasoning or argument with a cowardly cliched bumper-sticker statement.

Mark

[Strygaldwir]

I'd point out, you should NEVER (?) use your windless to hold your anchor! Snubbers are the accepted method, barring that clet it off. No sense in potentially ruining an expensive windless.

I use the half barrel (275 feet) of HT chain. Love it! It is holding up quite well after 4 years or so. I have never had to let out more than 175 feet of it. Coral is not the only thing you have to worry about abrading your rode. Rocks, metal roofs, cars! all are items that I have seen in various anchorages.

[cfarrar]

I can think of many reasons why an all chain primary rode is preferable (it is what we use), as well as why a combination rode would be preferable (it is what we used to use in different cruising grounds). Each has its place in relevant situations and styles. None of those reasons have to do with keeping the anchor set in difficult weather.

--Well stated, Mark. Conclusion: there are two ways to improve your holding power: a bigger/better anchor and scope.

[Bash]

Rule of thumb: the larger the boat, the less likely it will be to use nylon. When did you last see a ship anchor on nylon?

My guess is that somewhere around 13 meters LOA the combined rodes disappear, at least among cruisers. On my boat (14 meters) I still use nylon on the stern anchor, but wouldn't dream of it for the primary.

Racers and racer/cruisers are a whole 'nother matter.