Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-09-2010, 20:07   #31
Registered User
 
kiper204's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Maryland
Boat: Baba 30
Posts: 88
We use all chain. Love knowing all that heavy chain is lying down there. Just our preference. We also use an anchor marker, so we always know exactly where it is. We havent slipped yet, and that makes me sleep better at night
kiper204 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2010, 20:24   #32
Registered User
 
markpierce's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: M/V Carquinez Coot
Posts: 3,756
I'd think a chain about the length of the boat would do well in most circumstances, with nylon for the remainder of the rode. Due to the weight of chain, my "rule" would be: the smaller the boat the greater ratio of nylon to chain.
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2010, 21:08   #33
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Vancouver, Wash.
Boat: no longer on my Cabo Rico 38 Sanderling
Posts: 1,810
Send a message via MSN to John A
I selected my anchor combination for a worst case scenario. I wanted the shank of the anchor to remain parallel to the sea floor while my 12 ton boat rode out 50 knot winds with my bow sprit pitching in a 3 foot chop. This happened several times, once in Simpson Bay Lagoon on a clear February afternoon.
Remember, everything you own is hanging off that anchor!!
I used 300ft of 5/16 HT chain with an upgraded 45# bruce. If I was going to leave the boat unattended I put out at least 7:1 scope. Twice I used ny secondary anchor of 50 feet of 5/16 chain and 250 feet of 5/8" rope and a 45# delta.
There were a few times I drug, mostly from a poor anchor set.
John A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2010, 21:19   #34
Marine Service Provider
 
craigsmith's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 407
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Zarley View Post
I do not get the argument over saving 100 lbs of bow weight, I mean that is the weight of a middle age boy. What do you have below decks forward that is not essential? Your anchors holding depends on that chain staying on the bottom. And so do you. Just sayin
It doesn't though does it, any rational look at that topic will inform you that most any rode will be straightened as near as makes no difference bar taut before a half decent anchor will drag.

Weight in the pointy end of any boat is bad for performance. No sailor likes it. More chain than you need is just pointless. Particularly, using weak BBB / proof coil / G30 requires heavier chain for the same strength - again, inefficient. Use at least G40 / high test.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John A View Post
I selected my anchor combination for a worst case scenario. I wanted the shank of the anchor to remain parallel to the sea floor while my 12 ton boat rode out 50 knot winds with my bow sprit pitching in a 3 foot chop.
It's not going to happen. You have been misled about the physics involved. That line will go near straight, the only thing that will help you is adequate scope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John A View Post
There were a few times I drug, mostly from a poor anchor set.
cfarrar has the right idea, as hopefully does the OP.

~





Catenary & Scope In Anchor Rode: Anchor Systems For Small Boats
__________________
Craig Smith
info on anchors & anchoring | Peter & Kiwi Roaís website
craigsmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2010, 22:43   #35
Registered User
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfarrar View Post
My understanding is that chain rode is for durability, not strength or holding power.
It significantly affects holding power. The heavier the rode, the more the tug on the anchor will be horizontal, thereby digging in further and not pulling up. You will quickly make a few hundred feet of nylon diagonal from boat to anchor in a strong wind, causing a more vertical pull on your anchor.

Dive a boat at anchor with chain, and another with nylon in the same conditions with the same scope (or even more from the nylon), and you'll see a pile of chain on the bottom so that any tug will go horizontal, versus nylon which sort of dances around in the water.
rebel heart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2010, 22:54   #36
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Vancouver, Wash.
Boat: no longer on my Cabo Rico 38 Sanderling
Posts: 1,810
Send a message via MSN to John A
Craigesmith,
I think I mentioned on another thread that it was useless to discuss Politics, Religion, or which anchoring system is best for all conditions.

I don't think I was misled, rather I stated what I was comfortable with in 25 years of sailing 10 of those years cruising and living at anchor. Your experience may vary, I can handle that.

Scope is indeed the only thing that will save you and I have routinely used more than 10:1 scope, I've had the chain so straight that the boat shuddered with the strain. I've been in conditions where I ran the engine at 2000 rpm to halp the chain hold my boat, it was raining so hard that I used my facemask and snorkel while topside.

From those pictures I'd suggest a snubber of some kind on that chain to keep the strain and vibration from damaging the anchor windless. The only thing holding your boat is two shear pins on the shaft of the windless.
John
John A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2010, 03:43   #37
S/V rubber ducky
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Florida cruising currently
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 18,046
Not sure if over the years of reading the anchor threads I've learned anything because in the end there doesn't appear to be any agreeable answer. But I have read/learned enough to base my own decision on "something", which I'm going to keep to myself. So they have been worth the time to have read.

But the passion that develops over the topic sure approaches religion and politic levels.
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2010, 03:50   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: St Croix,US Virgin Islands
Boat: Nonsuch 324, 30', Dulcinea
Posts: 72
I just did almost the same. 300' 1/4"HT chain with 35lb CQR and a new Maxwell 1500 windlass for my 30' Nonsuch. Also found a real nice clip on snubber for 1/4 chain made by Wichard.
Made no difference in the trim btw, in fact I need to move more weight forward.
Irie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2010, 04:36   #39
Registered User
 
SvenG's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Mexico heading South
Boat: Ericson 39B - Senta II
Posts: 1,169
"Arrogance is knowledge"

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
I've been in too many arguments on the Internet to have another one. Have fun.
You made the right decision and I'll stop reading this thread too. Too bad, it actually was an interesting discussion for a while.

"Arrogance is knowledge" was the expression someone coined in another forum and it sure applies here.



-Sven
__________________
Senta II - https://www.Grenander.com/Senta_II/Blog/Blog.html
1977 Ericson 39B -- Hull # 216
SvenG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2010, 05:00   #40
Registered User
 
Vasco's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toronto
Boat: CS36Merlin, "La Belle Aurore"
Posts: 7,546
Hey I'm getting in this late but having used 50' of chain and nylon for 12 years and then going to all chain I'll stick with all chain and a good snubber. In the foto the boat behind me has snapped his snubber as it was too short.

__________________
Rick I
Toronto in summer, Bahamas in winter.
Vasco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2010, 05:26   #41
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 760
Quote:
Originally Posted by SvenG View Post
"Arrogance is knowledge" was the expression someone coined in another forum and it sure applies here.

-Sven
After reading some of these posts from a so called "expert", I sure agree with that statement.

I use BBB chain(spliced to nylon rode) and while you need to upgrade the size to obtain the same strength as high test, I prefer it since the links are shorter and less prone to binding and to my understanding the failure mode will show deformation prior to failure whereas the high test is more prone to sudden breakage. I have one observation from anchoring under severe conditions and that is the more nylon rode being used the more the sling shot effect will be felt in wind gusts.
lancelot9898 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2010, 06:05   #42
Registered User
 
colemj's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,104
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by SvenG View Post
"Arrogance is knowledge" was the expression someone coined in another forum and it sure applies here.
On both sides of this, I would say. To dismiss someone's argument because you don't agree with it is arrogance, if not hubris.

No one made the argument that, at lesser wind conditions, nylon has the same cantenary as chain. In these conditions, the anchor is holding the boat regardless of the type of rode or amount of cantenary induced in it.

When the wind picks up to a level most of us become concerned about, the chain and nylon WILL have the same cantenary effect on your anchor's holding power - none, they both will be straight. The pictures from two different posters showed this clearly without the need to don a mask and snorkel. At this point, you are relying solely on scope to present a proper pull angle to the anchor shank and any elasticity in your rode to absorb shock.

In conditions between no wind and OMG, the effect on the anchor from the cantenary of all chain rode will be matched by the elasticity of the nylon rode. The calculations for this are readily available and links to them have been presented in this thread. Of course, you are free to disagree with the math and physics using your own reasoning and data, and doing so will be very welcomed in these discussions.

I can think of many reasons why an all chain primary rode is preferable (it is what we use), as well as why a combination rode would be preferable (it is what we used to use in different cruising grounds). Each has its place in relevant situations and styles. None of those reasons have to do with keeping the anchor set in difficult weather.

You two (and anyone else) certainly have the right to disagree with posters, and to stop following this thread altogether, but you don't have the right to denigrate someone's reasoning or argument with a cowardly cliched bumper-sticker statement.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2010, 06:18   #43
Registered User
 
Strygaldwir's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Deale, Maryland
Boat: SeaView - Privilege 37
Posts: 1,024
Images: 5
I'd point out, you should NEVER (?) use your windless to hold your anchor! Snubbers are the accepted method, barring that clet it off. No sense in potentially ruining an expensive windless.

I use the half barrel (275 feet) of HT chain. Love it! It is holding up quite well after 4 years or so. I have never had to let out more than 175 feet of it. Coral is not the only thing you have to worry about abrading your rode. Rocks, metal roofs, cars! all are items that I have seen in various anchorages.
Strygaldwir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2010, 06:57   #44
Registered User
 
cfarrar's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Brooklin, Maine U.S.A
Boat: Allures 44
Posts: 734
Images: 2
Quote:
I can think of many reasons why an all chain primary rode is preferable (it is what we use), as well as why a combination rode would be preferable (it is what we used to use in different cruising grounds). Each has its place in relevant situations and styles. None of those reasons have to do with keeping the anchor set in difficult weather.
--Well stated, Mark. Conclusion: there are two ways to improve your holding power: a bigger/better anchor and scope.
cfarrar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2010, 07:26   #45
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Rule of thumb: the larger the boat, the less likely it will be to use nylon. When did you last see a ship anchor on nylon?

My guess is that somewhere around 13 meters LOA the combined rodes disappear, at least among cruisers. On my boat (14 meters) I still use nylon on the stern anchor, but wouldn't dream of it for the primary.

Racers and racer/cruisers are a whole 'nother matter.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
rode

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rode and Chain riptide Anchoring & Mooring 15 06-02-2010 04:23
Best Vertical Chain / Rode Windlass? Triguy Anchoring & Mooring 7 12-07-2009 22:56
Best place to buy Rode and Chain svDragonfly Anchoring & Mooring 23 03-03-2009 09:35
Anchor chain & rode bottleinamessage Classifieds Archive 2 11-09-2007 07:54
Chain rode size NoTies Anchoring & Mooring 10 12-03-2007 01:21

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:11.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.