A windlass, chain pipe, and stripper are sitting on to a boat...

[InsuredApple]

This really should be the start of a good joke, but unfortunately, it isn't.

I'm looking for some thoughts and opinions about our windlass, chain pipe, and stripper issues. Last year, we had to cut out Bahamas trip short, because the chain stripper got caught by the windlass gypsy -- bending the stripper and chain a bunch of damage. We had MultiTech pull the windlass off, and "professionally" reinstall it.

Well -- can you guess what happened today? Yup, same thing.

I am trying to figure out what's going on. It must be 1 of these 3 things:

1. The windlass was not reinstalled correctly, and the gypsy and chain pipe alignment are off, causing the chain to jump and get caught, and...
   
2. The chain is not sized correctly. I was looking at the specs for our Windlass (Lofrans Falkon), and the windlass supports chain sizes of 10mm (3/8") or 12mm (7/16"). When I measured our chain, it was 13.84mm. The measurement isn't "exact", but it seems quite a bit bigger than 12mm.
   
3. The windlass design is flawed, and sizing is off.

We are in Georgetown right now. I've ordered a replacement stripper (and spare), which will hopefully make it here by next week sometime. In the meantime, I will machine a temporary stripper using starboard or wood, knowing it will not last, but it would allow us to pull up our anchor.

Here are pictures:

[billknny]

I can not see any grade stamps on the links of your chain, but that is clearly NOT 12mm DIN776 sized chain. Mismatched chain and gypsy can certainly cause the failures you are seeing.

Without all the dimensions it is hard to be sure, but it looks like it might be 1/2 inch chain, either BBB or Grade 43, although the wire size you measure doesn't match that exactly either, but it is close.

Note that 7/16inch is not necessarily interchangeable with DIN776 12mm on the gypsy. 10mm and 3/8 inch are the only ones that (usually!) swap without problems.

[InsuredApple]

Originally Posted by billknny

I can not see any grade stamps on the links of your chain, but that is clearly NOT 12mm DIN776 sized chain. Mismatched chain and gypsy can certainly cause the failures you are seeing.

Without all the dimensions it is hard to be sure, but it looks like it might be 1/2 inch chain, either BBB or Grade 43, although the wire size you measure doesn't match that exactly either, but it is close.

Note that 7/16inch is not necessarily interchangeable with DIN776 12mm on the gypsy. 10mm and 3/8 inch are the only ones that (usually!) swap without problems.

It sounds to me like I should switch over to some 7/16" sized chain for sure. I am not 100% sure that the size of the chain is the cause, but it probably isn't helping the situation!

Here is a screenshot of the specs.

[slug]

Also make sure that your chain gypsy is not worn out

Once worn the chain sticks to the gypsy

They don’t last forever

[InsuredApple]

Originally Posted by slug

Also make sure that your chain gypsy is not worn out

Once worn the chain sticks to the gypsy

They don’t last forever

Oh, I did not know that the gypsy would wear out, but it does make sense that it would. I will replace it when we get to Fort Lauderdale in May -- might as well replace it with something new. I'll also replace the anchor chain with some 7/16 -- ugh expensive, but it seems like the right thing to do.

[Vasco]

How deep is the chain locker? In a shallow locker without a nice drop the chain bunches up and can cause jams. It might have nothing to do with gypsy size. A combination of operating the windlass too fast and shallow locker will certainly cause this. I would remove the metal cover on the spurling pipe as it further constricts the fall into the locker.

[rslifkin]

If you're replacing the gypsy anyway, it might be worth considering a switch to 3/8 G4 / HT chain. If 7/16 BBB / G30 is strong enough for your application, 3/8 G4 will be as well. And it'll take up less locker space (which will help if insufficient fall is part of the issue) and it'll weigh less. Might be cheaper too.

[Smokeys Kitchen]

Originally Posted by Vasco

How deep is the chain locker? In a shallow locker without a nice drop the chain bunches up and can cause jams. It might have nothing to do with gypsy size. A combination of operating the windlass too fast and shallow locker will certainly cause this. I would remove the metal cover on the spurling pipe as it further constricts the fall into the locker.

+1 for checking this out. I had this happen a couple of time before I learned what 'castling' is. The windlass would just stop when the chain piled up high enough to push against the incoming rode

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by Vasco

How deep is the chain locker? In a shallow locker without a nice drop the chain bunches up and can cause jams. It might have nothing to do with gypsy size. A combination of operating the windlass too fast and shallow locker will certainly cause this. I would remove the metal cover on the spurling pipe as it further constricts the fall into the locker.

We have a shallow chainlocker but when the chain backs up, rhe stripper just keeps on working and chain accumulates on deck. It is a vertical windlass, maybe that matters. but I think the stripper should work even with no tension on the inboard end of the chain. I would add that no chain stripper should be so flimsy rhat it can be bent by the windlass. Windlass should stall before damage done to stripper. Sounds like a design issue.

I had to enlarge one of the bolt holes on our chain stripper to poaition it closer to the gypsy.. Before I did that. the stripper did not work reliably. So take a very close look at what is happening. You are getting a spare so maybe a little experimenting with your current aetup is in order.

You might send a few links of your chain to the windlass manufacturer or sales folks so they can find the correct gypsy.

[groundtackle]

IA. that exact issue with a Falkon happened to me and was as a castle problem. I needed to shove over the pile and got a little greedy. Ultimately made up a large 8mm al plate that grabbed the stripper and pipe along with windlass bolts. Slide an isolator between the aluminum and windlass bottom or those lofans will rot from the ground up. Bed it all down with goo of choice and lanicote including the mounting bolts or those wont come apart either. That goes for all the windlass bolts, take them out, retap and die threads, lube and reinstall. Your boatyard bill will be drastically reduced a few years from now.
I'd also recommend stripping the windlass down to keyways and have a really good look for sloppy keys and ways. If you've hammer stopped the thing even once it's possible there is damage. One of my clients rolled a key and I almost destroyed the whole thing getting it apart.
Very carefully tail the chain under and fwd with stripper gone and rode loaded, run in run 10'. You will know immediately if links stick.
This gear is extremely dangerous so please pay close attention to safety, everyone.
Chris

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by InsuredApple

Oh, I did not know that the gypsy would wear out, but it does make sense that it would. I will replace it when we get to Fort Lauderdale in May -- might as well replace it with something new. I'll also replace the anchor chain with some 7/16 -- ugh expensive, but it seems like the right thing to do.

Throwing bucketfuls of money at something without knowing what the actual problem is is not the solution.

See if chain wheel is worn out - check if chain is an actual match to chain wheel, then decide what the next move is.

[roverhi]

Is this happening when you let out chain. If so, did you let the chain run free or power it down?? The chain pipe looks minimal sized for the chain. Any hiccup in feeding the chain looks like it would bind in the pipe and cause the damage you experienced. When chain is allowed to run free centrifugal force will lift the chain off the gypsy a bit changing the angle it's feeding from the pipe and could also cause the problem.

[hlev00]

We had a problem that took a while to realize what had happened. The results we had are similar to what you describe. The gypsy on our Lewmar H2 windlass is two parts that are held in alignment by a pin. Somewhere along the way the chain jammed and sheered the pin allowing the two halves to come out of alignment. The alignment wasn't off by enough to make the problem obvious. When we finally realized what was happening and replaced the gypsy we no longer had the problem. So whether misaligned or not, as noted earlier you might have some wear issues.



Harry
s/v Juno
juno432.blogspot.com

[InsuredApple]

I found out the cause of the issue. It turns out that when the windlass was remounted last year, by MultiTech. The vibration and movement of the boat worked the holes in the thin resin just enough for the chain pipe to move a bit -- and when there was a bit of sideways pull from on the windlass, it moved a bit too... the combination of the little movements caused the stripper pin to hit the gypsy.

We already chatted with Fleming Marine Composites, and they will fix the fiberglass stuff when we make it back to Fort Lauderdale.

Here is the underside, which didn't even get a layer of resin.



Here are the pictures from when they remounted the windlass -- I should have supervised more closely or had a surveyor supervise the work from MultiTech.

[KP44]

You need a gypsy that is made for your chain. The correct gypsy is probably available. If not, consider new chain or new windlass.