What do you all think

[Dirk Williams]

Using a head sail off of a smaller sailboat for a storm sail. I'm reluctant to,ask, but was thinking of a jib off of a hobit cat for a storm foresail. Roughly the same size.

Any thoughts

Thank you in advance.

Dirk

[babaluey]

Same area maybe but probably not the same cloth weight. Storm sails need to be made of heavier stuff.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Differences in cloth weights aside, there's a huge number of features that go into a storm jib that simply aren't present in the jib of a beach cat. And that work to keep a heavy weather jib from self destructing when you most need the thing. A few of them are:
- Extra rows of stitching
- Roping around the edges
- Extra heavy rings at each corner
- Extra chafe protection
Without these things (& more) a sail can easily beat itself to death in storm force winds.

Another thing too is that a storm jib needs to be cut so that it works well with your boats rig, so that it provides sufficient drive, even when the boat is in the trough of a deep wave, without causing excessive heeling from being too big, or it's center of effort being up too high.

FYI, a good number of the key details that go into such a sail can be found on some sailmaker's websites. Though it doesn't hurt to read a few books on sails & sailmaking yourself.

One other option for storm jibs, when you know the dimensions of one that will properly fit your boat, is to pick up a "used" one. Used being in quotes, as it's quite common to find pre-loved storm sails that have never been flown. But you of course need to know how to inspect them for defects, as well as what features they need to have.

The primary cost factor in them is labor, not size or cloth. As there's so much hand work involved in making a proper storm sail. Though again, if you have some idea of what you're doing, you can do a lot of the hand work yourself. But discuss it with the sailmaker first of course.

[CSY Man]

Originally Posted by Dirk Williams

Using a head sail off of a smaller sailboat for a storm sail. I'm reluctant to,ask, but was thinking of a jib off of a hobit cat for a storm foresail. Roughly the same size.

Any thoughts

Thank you in advance.

Dirk

Bad idea, it will blow out in a real storm.
Get a proper storm sail made for your boat.
Remember the difference between a Man and a Monkey?
A monkey learns from his own mistakes, a man learns from other's mistakes.
Don't be a monkey..

[Don C L]

I think uncivilized pretty much wrapped it up. Used storm sails are pretty common and often haven't been used much at all! Try Bacon sails in MD or Minneys in Costa Mesa, check their websites. Is this for a HR33?

[Dirk Williams]

Ok, I get it. All your points are good. I'll have PEAK make me a set of real storm sails.


Thanks for your input. I did just purchase a really heavy used main. The numbers were really really close to my luff, foot, leech and head numbers. I've got a new main "Peak" sails. just thought it wise to have a set of back up sails on board.

The "sea scout" troop in Portland Ore, has like 50 bags of used good to great shape sails, 95.00 for each bag, with a sail. Their trying to raise money for projects.

I got my Hallberg RASSY 33 from a Sea Scout program.

Dirk

[Dirk Williams]

, Don, yes for my Hallberg RASSY 33.

Dirk

[Dirk Williams]

If I could purchase a used good set of storm sails I will. I'm spending money like a drunken sailor. Mrs. Williams is tolerant to a point.

Anybody no someone selling a used set, please let me know.

Dirk

Main
Luff, 37.1.
Foot 11. 82.
Leech 38.54.
Head .44
These are the measurement soff of my new Peak blue water sail.

Dirk

[Don C L]

Well, don't keep us in suspense! How does one get a hold of the sea scouts up there to find out what they have???

[UNCIVILIZED]

Here’s a list of most of the features that come on storm jibs from a small, premium sail loft. As well as what features go into building their standard sails.

Storm Headsails
Your storm stays’l or storm jib is designed for use in combination with a reefed mainsail or a trys’l. It is cut and constructed with a size and shape to keep your boat moving forward or assist in heaving-to under extreme conditions. In addition to the construction details described under “All Sails”, your storm headsail will have the following specific construction details:
• Scotch cut
• Reinforcement patches at hanks
• Bronze, hand-tied piston hanks with leather chafe protection
• Internal bolt rope served and seized at both ends
• Bolt rope tensioned to take load off sail cloth
• Cast bronze thimbles at head and tack
• Leech runner
• Webbing reinforcement at foot

Visibility patch: We offer the option of a fluorescent yellow visibility patch. It is sewn on both sides of the storm jib, storm stays’l, or trys’l near the head of the sail. The visibility patch helps make your vessel distinguishable from white caps in the ocean and clouds on the horizon. We recommend this patch rather than a solid fluorescent sail because high quality premium Dacron is not available in fluorescent colors; therefore, the body of your sail should be constructed of the high quality white Dacron we use for all our working sails.

Tack pendant: Most storm headsails will require a tack pendant. Unless otherwise requested our spectra tack pendant will be integral to the tack thimble on one end and have a stainless steel snap shackle on the other end. The spectra webbing will be wrapped in a chafe and UV resistant material.

Sail Construction Details, All Sails
All sails are custom constructions based on the dimensions of your properly tuned rig, the displacement of your boat, and your sailing plans and experience.
• Computer aided design using Autometrix SMSW software: all sails are designed in house then double checked by world-renowned sail designer Sandy Goodall.
• Entire sail construction happens in-house: nothing outsourced
• Highest quality materials available
•White Dacron—Challenge High Mass Fiber Weave
o Classic mainsails, classic mizzens, hanked-on jibs and staysails, hanked-on storm jibs and staysails, trysails
• White Dacron—Challenge Marblehead
o Roller furling headsails, in-mast furling mainsails, in-boom furling mainsails
• Tanbark or Cream Dacron cloth: manufacturer depends on customer’s color preference (usually Dimension Polyant APUV)—tanbark and cream Dacron are more expensive and will be listed as an option if requested.
• Nylon sails: manufacturer depends on customer’s color preference
• All cloth inspected before being cut on our in-house plotter/cutter
• Wide seams accommodate three lines of stitch and allow for future re-stitching between original lines of stitch
• Patch edges are folded
• Leather chafe protection standard on all sails
• Designed to be easily repairable underway if necessary
• Leech guards on all seams to protect from chafe
• All hardware meets or exceeds specs for safe working load
• Scrap fabric provided with all new sails (cloth for possible future repairs or color matching)
• Jammer cleats and pockets for leech and foot lines
• Primary rings are stainless steel hydraulically pressed super rings
• Secondary rings are all hand-sewn
• All rings placed for optimal load displacement

Please be aware that new genoas or jibs often need chafe patches where spreaders and raydomes contact the sail. These patches are not included in the original price of the sail because it won’t be clear whether they are needed or how big they might need to be until the sail is bent-on. After your sail is bent-on, we will help assess the need for patches free of charge. If you plan to sail locally for a season, we encourage you to sail awhile with the new sail “as is” then bring it back for chafe protection when chafe marks become visible.

Numbers, Logos, Insignias: Numbers, logos, and insignias are not required on cruising sails and are not included in the cost of our sails. Please feel free to request an estimate if you wish to add these items.

Sail Bags: Each sail comes in our distinctive sail bag stenciled with the type of sail you ordered. Storm sails come in red nylon bags for easy identification; light air sails (spinnakers, asymmetric spinnakers, drifters, code zeros, etc.) come in white nylon bags; “working” Dacron sails come in dark green sail bags. Full batten mainsails come in a green nylon tube-shaped bag. These sail bags should not be stowed on deck; constant UV exposure will cause deterioration of the nylon bag cloth as well as the sail cloth inside. If you need deck bags for your sails, we can recommend canvas workers in our area who make custom bags and sail covers.

[Dirk Williams]

Portland Oregon Sea Scout leader. Pat Kelley 503-667-7835. Call him and he will email you a list of size and brand name of available sails. 95.00 or less per sail and bag.

Dirk

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Dirk Williams

Ok, I get it. All your points are good. I'll have PEAK make me a set of real storm sails.

Call Bacon Sails & Marine Supplies in Annapolis before you do. They are a marine consignment shop, as well as being a sail maker, and the back warehouse, stuffed with used sails, is enormous, looks like the warehouse at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark.

They have storm sails, and some that are used but have never actually been used. Know a few people who have picked one up for cheap.

I have to disagree with Uncivilized on the cut/sizing issue. Storm jibs are small, and it's not critical that it be closely matched to your boat or rig. It's easy to change the pennants to fit.

Make sure you buy one that has rings on the luff if you have a furler.

[Dirk Williams]

Uncivilized, was over looking at the used boat store Don suggested, " Minnie's" they have a couple storm sails for reasonable prices.

How does one determine sizing for a specific boat. My need is for my HR 33. If I knew measurements and found a set, I'd snap them up.
Also need sea anchors and bow sea anchors.

Dirk

And thank you for your educating me.

[Dirk Williams]

Wow, thank you. Aswell. I really appriciate all the help. My wife's not gonna be happy, I'm spending her Hawaii money!

Dirk

[Dirk Williams]

Don, check,your PM account.

Dirk