Need advice on upgrading Deck Clutches

[bxdobs]

Hunter 23.5 (1991) with sports interior (has an unremovable molded headliner) ... purchased 2 new Spinlock XAS/3 Power Clutches ... removed the old spinlock clutches today with the expectation that I was just going to do the balsa core epoxy hole trick seen on a number of cruiser channels ... seems the 4"x 3" flat area where the original clutches were mounted have no core between the headliner and the mount. Thinking this is just an embedded metal plate that the manufacturer drilled and tapped to mount the old Clutches
(clutches were each secured with 4 x 1" 10-24 SS bolts)

2 challenges:

1) drilling and filling the old holes with epoxy doesn't sound like an option as there appears to be an approx 1" air gap under the entire area of the mounting plates ... before mounting the new Clutches, should I add a couple of layers of fiberglass over these plates ... or ... use something like Sikaflex (sp?) to bond another 4"x3" piece of metal (Stainless, or Aluminium) ... would the gel coat need to be taken off before bonding anything.

2) the swing keel has a pulley anchor point mounted on the starboard plate ... as the XAS/3 completely covers the entire 4x3 plate, need another way to anchor this pulley ... was thinking of using one of the side bolts on the XAS itself (it has 3 x 3" 10-32 bolts that hold it together) but haven't found a source for a SS (3.5" to 4") 10-32 Panhead bolt ... another option might be to drill through the headliner and secure this anchor point using a washer and nut (might be able to epoxy the washer and nut) then use a friction plug of some sort to close the headliner

Even though there are 2 access points through the headliner to access the Winch mounts, it is impossible to access the bottom of the Clutch mounting plates several inches forward of these access holes

What if I filled the air void under these plates with spray foam (the expanding foam used for insulating window frames) perhaps that would provide a foundation to do the epoxy trick to at least seal the old holes? (a previous owner drilled over a dozen holes in the starboard plate for whatever reason and just filled them with silicon)

Thanks in advance for any advice/suggestions you can provide

[KompetentKrew]

I must be misunderstanding.

Surely you have to use bolts to secure the backing plate in place, drill new holes in the right place, tap appropriate threads in the new holes, then remove the bolts holding the backing plate in place and emplace the new clutch?

[bxdobs]

The alleged "backing plate" is nothing more than a raised surface on the cabin deck (fixed to the deck) ... there are no "bolts" holding this "plate" in place. My 2 concerns are with what to do with the myriad of holes in this plate and where/how to secure the anchor point for the swing keel. While this is a fresh water boat (sailed on an inland 100 mile long lake), it still needs to keep rain from penetrating through holes ... My expectation for mounting the new Clutch would be to drill and tap 4 (or possibly 6) 10-24 SS bolts. (each of the 3 Clutch segments has 2 mounting holes ... as the 3 segments are bolted together with 3 x 3" horizontal bolts I expect 4 mounting screws should be sufficient as that is what the existing spinlock clutches were secured with)

There is no access to the underside of the mounting plate without destroying the headliner so I cannot easily add nuts to these bolts. ... Not changing the current line configuration with Starboard Clutches used for the Main and Jib Halyards plus the swing keel ... the Port Clutches are for the Boom, Main Out-haul, and reef lines. The old Spinlock clutches were slipping due to wear ... got a deal on these 2 new clutch clusters and am replacing the halyards so expecting we should be good for a number years.

[KompetentKrew]

Originally Posted by bxdobs

... there are no "bolts" holding this "plate" in place.

Ok, but there were bolts going into the plate before, right?

There was previously a clutch bolted to this plate, wasn't there?

[bxdobs]

Yes, I have stated that in both my posts (the previous clutches were secured with 4 x 10-24 SS Flat counter sunk bolts) ... so sorry, not following your question ... maybe some clarification ... without knowing WHAT this plate is (was hoping someone here might really know) I am concerned about how to seal it so I don't get water penetration ... the new Clutch isn't going to seal the holes that are in these plates even though they are slightly larger then the flat area that I am referring to as the plate. I also stated that I am expecting this has to be some kind of metal plate (otherwise not sure how they could use bolts instead of screws) ... all of the Cruiser youtube videos I have watched on fiberglass Deck repairs have had balsa core decks ... I was expecting the same here but find there is nothing but air between the Deck and the head liner (at least where the clutches are mounted) so where I was expecting to use epoxy and Screws I will now have to go find some SS 10-24 bolts (the old ones are slotted and I hate slotted screws with a passion)



The options I am thinking of to seal these holes are:
1) use silicon like the previous owner did (however have had leaks with this method)
2) glass over the Plate area

3) epoxy or sikaflex another piece of metal over the entire Plate area
4) fill the air pocket between the headliner and plate with insulation (expanding) foam to provide a base to then fill these holes with epoxy


The mounting doesn't change for any of these for options ... I will have to make a hole template ... drill a guide hole for 4 or 6 bolts for each clutch ... then run a 10-24 tap down each hole ... haven't decided if the Clutches need to be sikaflexed to the plate as well ... being this boat isn't going to have to sustain heavy seas or winds might get away with just bolting the clutches down ... the old clutches had some sort of bonding agent on the bottom of them as they didn't come free after I removed the screws



Had also asked if the gel coat needs to be removed from this plate if I want to fibreglass or glue another plate on top

[bxdobs]

Follow up:



Was able to locate a small scrap piece of 1/4" aluminum plate ... cut out a piece for the Port side to fit the bottom of the Clutch assembly and the Starboard side was the same except added an inch to the Starboard side of the clutch to provide an anchor point for the Keel Pulley


The decision to add these oversized plates worked out well AS the 3" x 4" flat mounting plates on the deck don't appear to be all metal (aluminum) ... while all 6 mounting holes on the clutch fit within the 3" x 4" area, not all holes had metal under them



Decided to use all 6 mounting holes tapped through the new 1/4" plate into the "deck plate"



But, as stated, some of the holes are revealing different content; while there is the expected evidence of Aluminum shaving from some holes, others only have white and black powdered granules and wood shavings ... as such I drilled, tapped and counter sunk 2 additional holes in the center of the deck plate to ensure the 1/4" plate is absolutely secure ... what I intend to do now is sikaflex the plates then fill the overhang gaps with a special marine filler then paint the aluminum with gel coat before finally mounting the clutches



Long story short, using this 1/4" plate solves my first 2 issues of sealing up all of the existing holes and providing an anchor point for the Keel Pulley ... as it turns out this also solves an unforeseen issue of providing more "meat" to secure the mounting screws.



Ultimately these clutches are overkill for this size of boat but I got them for a great price. Sad that the user manual doesn't spell out what to expect with these mounting plates