mast repair with heavier mast...?

[Steven UK]

So back to the broken mast issue… there is now available in the yard a mast from a 36ft gulf star, my boat is a 32ft Westerly Fulmar. From the information that I am getting/trying to ascertain the mast on the gulf star is about a 1lb per foot heavier than my current mast. It’s a 45’ deck stepped mast so an extra 45lb with a center of mass 22.5’ above the deck (yes i'm going to cut it down). this represents about a 20% increase in weight. I have seen older radars in the 30lb range that are fitted in front of the spreaders, so that's 2/3 of the way there. I’m looking for people that have done this. will the extra weight aloft be a huge issue? I’m planning an Atlantic crossing so I am weighing up the increased tenderness against increased mast strength. Would the extra weight just mean a standing rigging issue…? my draft is 5.25’ and it’s a cast iron fin.

Also the previous owner added for and aft intermediate shrouds because he was racing, so some strengthening has been done.

Repairing the current mast is going to be messy because there is about a 3” section that is twisted up and will need to be cut out. So I would have to lift the mast up on its step and lower the goose neck by the corresponding amount. Its broken just below the spreaders.

[billknny]

This is a complex question, with lots of moving parts.

Free internet advice is worth what you pay for it. You’ll get responses that say it’s fine, and others saying it’s a bad idea.

I’d strongly suggest you have a qualified naval architect run the numbers and see what needs changing. A stiffer mast might let you down size some of the rigging, getting some of the weight back.

[Jim Cate]

I'm not qualified to answer the question, but I notice that no one seems to ask similar questions when adding radars or additional furled sails aloft (both of which I have done), and the numbers are similar.

I'd be interested to learn the results in terms of AVS or other factors if a NA is consulted. My gut feeling is that it isn't a big issue.

Jim

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Steven UK

So back to the broken mast issue… there is now available in the yard a mast from a 36ft gulf star, my boat is a 32ft Westerly Fulmar. From the information that I am getting/trying to ascertain the mast on the gulf star is about a 1lb per foot heavier than my current mast. It’s a 45’ deck stepped mast so an extra 45lb with a center of mass 22.5’ above the deck (yes i'm going to cut it down). this represents about a 20% increase in weight. I have seen older radars in the 30lb range that are fitted in front of the spreaders, so that's 2/3 of the way there. I’m looking for people that have done this. will the extra weight aloft be a huge issue? I’m planning an Atlantic crossing so I am weighing up the increased tenderness against increased mast strength. Would the extra weight just mean a standing rigging issue…? my draft is 5.25’ and it’s a cast iron fin.

Also the previous owner added for and aft intermediate shrouds because he was racing, so some strengthening has been done.

Repairing the current mast is going to be messy because there is about a 3” section that is twisted up and will need to be cut out. So I would have to lift the mast up on its step and lower the goose neck by the corresponding amount. Its broken just below the spreaders.

The ballast of a 32 Westerly Fulmar is 4,210 lb / 1,910 kg, the displacement is 9,900 lb / 4,491 kg. The added weight of 45 pounds is 1% of your ballast. I believe it would have very modest effect.

[Steven UK]

Love it, thanks guys.

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by Montanan

The ballast of a 32 Westerly Fulmar is 4,210 lb / 1,910 kg, the displacement is 9,900 lb / 4,491 kg. The added weight of 45 pounds is 1% of your ballast. I believe it would have very modest effect.

Yes, but this is not the correct way to think. The Center of mass of the ballast is maybe 3' below the center of flotation and the center of mass of the mast 20´above.

[Briarpatch]

StevenUK,

If you decide to go a different route, let me know, because I am looking for a mast (with everything) that length for my steel Roberts 36.

Regards,

Briarpatch

[Montanan]

It is ever more common to have main sails furled inside [or behind] the mast which added furling equipment and requisite bulking of the aluminum mast structure adds considerable weight aloft. The stowing of the reefed sail aloft also adds considerable weight up high compared to reefing by flaking or furling at the boom. Sails are reefed when the vessel begins to heel over too much which heeled over moment is exactly the same time one does not desire to have excess weight aloft. It's moderately higher weight will have a modest effect on your righting moment when and if you heel far over such that the weight begins to gain leverage. But it certainly will have much less weight aloft than a wooden spar.

Going to a somewhat more robust mast is a safer choice than choosing a less robust mast, sort of like the standard of going up one size on your choice of ground tackle.

Enjoy your sailing.

[roland stockham]

The effect of changing the weight of a mast and/or rigging is primarily in two areas. First stability. Increasing weight aloft raised the boats center of gravity, any significant change here make the boat more tender and generally is not good. You can only tell if this will be significant by doing a full rig calculation based on displacement and inertial moments. Second roll moment. Increasing weight aloft has a very significant effect on the roll moments. More weight = slower pitch and roll and greater resistance to knock down by waves so can make the boat safer and more comfortable. However if taken to far can effect the boats ability to lift over waves or roll with them leading to green water on the deck, bows burying and other undesirables. There is a possible third area to look at depending on how the original rig was loaded. When rolling and pitching the mast develops inertia which has to be absorbed at the end of the roll. A heavier mast could exceed the rigging spec and drastically shorten the rig life, one or two % load increase can halve the life of a rig if it is close to the critical 10% load

At 20% I think I would want to contact the boat designer or a naval architect for advice unless you are capable of running the math yourself.

[Clivevon]

Hi. Westerly Fulmar - nice strong boat. Good sailer. I've sailed on one & it struck me as being a cruiser racer, rather than an out & out cruiser, though. Not originally designed as an ocean crosser. If you are planning on crossing the Atlantic I bet you have put all sorts of extra gear on that boat - (fuel, water, liferaft) & maybe some extra batteries. I'm guessing she is above designed weight anyway so I wouldnt think an extra 45 lbs above deck was going to make a huge difference. Just make sure your extra batteries are as low down as possible to keep your CG low.

Obviously there is a sensible upper limit to keep her seaworthy & not cripple her speed - all I'm saying is I'm guessing the extra weight of the mast is not the whole picture in your case ??

Also, the thought occurs - anyone climbed the mast at sea on a 32 footer??

[Scaramanga F25]

About 200lbs in the bilge would offset the extra mast weight if it troubles you.
Or when offshore put the chain and anchors in the bilge.

[Steven UK]

Originally Posted by Briarpatch

StevenUK,

If you decide to go a different route, let me know, because I am looking for a mast (with everything) that length for my steel Roberts 36.

Regards,

Briarpatch

Brian where are you? I have had several leads that’s all, I’ll help if I can...

Regards Steven

[Steven UK]

Guys
My boat is indeed a cruiser racer, currently carrying a lot of extra weight. Fuel Gerry cans, water in cans, extra chain, a fleet of t105’s, e.t.c. Still handles very well in a blow. I would trust it over the Atlantic. I feel more comfortable with the heavier mast now. And it will save me 20k on the new rig.

Regards Steven

[Fore and Aft]

Steven let us know how she handles after you have crossed the Atlantic? I doubt it will matter.
I survey a lot of boats where the owners seem to think the radar arch is another storage area and they load them up with solar panels, surfboards and kayaks. This is usually above head height and the radar arch is usually a stainless steel monstrosity. I certainly never hear the owners question the stability issue.
I have just remembered a yacht that was a bit tender and the owner glued/glassed a small half torpedo of lead on either side of the keel. It made a huge difference to stability.
Cheers

[GILow]

If you are worried by the extra mast weight then maybe just replace some of the standing rigging with dyneema or the equivalent.

I swapped my 8mm stainless running backstays for dyneema line. Saved quite a few kg aloft.