Frigoboat Keelcooler troubleshooting

[Katka]

Hi,
We have been working on our refrigeration system for almost one year now. We have had working Air Cooled Frigoboat system before. We expanded our capacity and added keelcoolers. We have now two systems - one for our freezer and one for our fridge. Both system have same size of evaporator plates and same keelcooler. The freezer has new compressor BD50. We reused our old compressor for our fridge. The compressor was working for 11 year. We disconnected the compressor and it sat for about one year. We connected both system and the freezer works perfectly. The fridge does not. The compressor seems to be running, we feel the vibration but there is not cooling on the evaporator plate. There is no frost or sweating. We don’t hear any noises of any movement in the plates. The connection are dry with no sign of leaking refrigerant.
My idea is to use the A/C gauge to measure if there is refrigerant in our system. Unfortunately we can’t find any information about the pressure value on high and low port. The Frigoboat boat people told us it is not information for regular person, only for license technicians. Also we were told that the R134a sold in for example Harbor Freight is for car AC only and can not be used in keel cooled system. We are now debating how to proceed forward.

If anyone has any information how to measure and examine the pressure in working vs non working system, please can you share it with us?

Can someone verify that the R134a sold in auto parts store is the same as the one used by refrigeration technician?

Thank you so much for all your help.

[Bowdrie]

The 134 you get in the little cans is ok, just get the stuff that doesn't have any leak-stop or leak detector dye in it.
Pressures are variable depending upon temperature.
It sounds as though there is little or no refrigerant in that system.
Even with keel condensing it's a good idea to keep the little fans blowing over the compressors to reduce heat load.

[CarlF]

Before screwing with gas (which is very hard to do right on these systems because there is only a tiny amount) it might just be a bit of dirt that has blocked the cap tube. It can often be freed by bending the cap tube to a different angle and tapping with a screwdriver.

The dirt often gets into the tubing when tubing is being pushed through an opening during installation.

Coastal Climate is (or used to be) the main US importer. They were very helpful over the phone. They also published some guides and youtube videos:

https://www.coastalclimatecontrol.co...t/188?Itemid=0

https://www.coastalclimatecontrol.co...t/175?Itemid=0

https://www.coastalclimatecontrol.co...roubleshooting

If there is a leak, it's likely because one of the o-rings has gone bad. These need to be replaced every five years. See instructions in the linke above. Obviously your new keel cooler 0-rings are fine but maybe some of the ones on the old equipment aren't.

The instructions above include a guide to figuring out whether you've got the right amount of refrigerant by how much the evaporator plate frosts. If you determine you need gas, I believe you don't use convetional guages but instead put in small amounts of gas observing each time how the frost changes. You need to find pure R134 gas not typical automotice compressor gas that has additives that will damage the compressor.

[JimsCAL]

R134a is R134a. No reason the stuff sold for autos can't be used in marine systems. Is the same compressor serving both freezer and refrig sections? One evaporator or two? If one, the compressor suction pressure will be low, driven by the freezer section. The compressor discharge will be based a temperature somewhat above the ambient air temperature. For 134a that will be in the range of 100 psi or so.

[Katka]

Thank you. Yes, I contacted the Coastal Climate Control, read and watched all the troubleshooting videos. They were very helpful unfortunately they could not navigate us the right direction. They were very puzzled too. The compressor is not getting very warm and does not consume much Amps. That would lead to not having enough refrigerant in the system. But the system never ran and Keelcooler and evaporator are new units. If one of the components would loose the refrigerant prior installing, there should be some refrigerant in the other two components and by connecting all three parts together, there should be some refrigerant in the system and it should make some noises in the evaporator plate. If the system is completely out off the refrigerant, there should be some leak but we can’t find any oily residue anywhere.

Yes, we replaced the o rings prior installing.

Yes, we consider the blockage in the system, we heated the capillary tubes but no result there. We will try to tap it more.

JimsCAL, we have two separate system, one compressor, evaporator and the keelcooler for fridge and one compressor, evaporator and the keelcooler for the fridge.

Thank you all for advice

[Searles]

If no frosting on plate I will bet on low or no gas ,134 a is all the same if no tracers or other stuff added ,you be able to slowly beed a small amount of gas into the system ,a tracer in the gas may show if a leak is present ,if you go that way ,.⚓️⛵️

[Bill O]

^^^^^ Would agree w/Searles and others, you are most likely low on refrigerant.

I recently removed some of my fittings to add a fan to the keel cooler system (to run when we are on the hard). When opening the fittings it released some refrigerant and had to add more to make it work properly.
If you have a manifold to add gas, only use it for ease of hook up (the gauges on the fridgoboat system are not needed). Before hooking up to low side of compressor bleed manifold, just enough to expel the air. Screw on the fitting to the low side Schrader valve, turn on the compressor and slowly add small amounts of refrigerant. (take your time/may take several hrs.) You will slowly see the plate starting to frost over. Continue adding small amounts until plate is frosted over. The tube coming out of the box should not frost over, if so, you've added too much.

The procedure isn't too hard, but if you don't know what you are doing, find someone else who does. Whatever you do, do not use the manifold to set it to a certain pressure. This isn't how the cap system works and you will over fill your system.

[s/v Jedi]

If Frigoboat quick fittings are five years old, the O rings must be replaced. A new set of O rings come with each unit, plus the same ones are on the caps that you remove when installing.

[CaptainRivet]

forgot to mention:
filter the used oil before you burn it.l just use that funel with filters which i use for filling up diesel.a coffee filter does it too.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Katka

Hi,
We have been working on our refrigeration system for almost one year now. We have had working Air Cooled Frigoboat system before. We expanded our capacity and added keelcoolers. We have now two systems - one for our freezer and one for our fridge. Both system have same size of evaporator plates and same keelcooler. The freezer has new compressor BD50. We reused our old compressor for our fridge. The compressor was working for 11 year. We disconnected the compressor and it sat for about one year. We connected both system and the freezer works perfectly. The fridge does not. The compressor seems to be running, we feel the vibration but there is not cooling on the evaporator plate. There is no frost or sweating. We don’t hear any noises of any movement in the plates. The connection are dry with no sign of leaking refrigerant.
My idea is to use the A/C gauge to measure if there is refrigerant in our system. Unfortunately we can’t find any information about the pressure value on high and low port. The Frigoboat boat people told us it is not information for regular person, only for license technicians. Also we were told that the R134a sold in for example Harbor Freight is for car AC only and can not be used in keel cooled system. We are now debating how to proceed forward.

If anyone has any information how to measure and examine the pressure in working vs non working system, please can you share it with us?

Can someone verify that the R134a sold in auto parts store is the same as the one used by refrigeration technician?

Thank you so much for all your help.

Our mothballed Frigaboat systems fail to start about every other year. We hire the tech guy to service. It has always responded to total evacuation and a recharge. It’s also known for the electronic control black box to fail. Keep a spare.

[CarlF]

Originally Posted by Katka

Yes, we consider the blockage in the system, we heated the capillary tubes but no result there. We will try to tap it more.

Thank you all for advice

Surprising that Coastal Climate couldn't figure it out. They really are the experts in these units.

I still suspect a cap tube blockage partly because I had that problem on my unit and it sounds like some of your symptoms (although not all). Does you unit have a filter/dryer in the system? They started to add these because cap tube blockage was causing so many issues. They also sell a cap tube filter.

I would call Coastal Climate again and see if they can't give you some better guidance

https://www.coastalclimatecontrol.co...rier-p95699130

[Katka]

CarlF, Coastal Climate were very helpful but couldn’t determine the problem due to too many variables.

1. Compressor is not new, so they don’t know if we did something wrong when we disconnected or during it was sitting for almost a year

2. When we were sourcing out the part in mid of 2022 they were out of many items. We had to get the evaporators and compressor from different dealers. I could not find the evaporator anywhere but I found one on EBay. It came originally packaged, with no sign of being used. It looked exactly the same as 5he one we purchased from dealer about two months before. Since it was the only one I was able to get in that time, we were happy but now we don’t know if it got someway compromised since it was not from original dealer.

Yes, our keelcooler and evaporator plate both have filter/drier.

I’m aware of the electronic controller is failing but according to coastal climate the compressor would not run at all. Same thing with the blockage in the system, the compressor should work hard and it should be getting hot.

[s/v Jedi]

You have no circulation which can be caused by having no refrigerant in the system or by a blockage.

You simply start with a gauge set. It only connects to the one service valve which is the low side. Connect a can of correct refrigerant to the center, yellow hose and purge the gauge set before connecting to the system.

Now you can see is it has any pressure while switched off and if it pulls a vacuum after switching on.

If it has pressure when off but no vacuum when on, you have a blockage. I have had debris from the keel cooler blocking the small gauge refrigerant line towards the holding plate.

[Bowdrie]

If you can access a vacuum pump, it's always a good idea to vacuum a system before adding refrigerant.

[Katka]

Thank you everyone for your help. It seems the system was low on refrigerant. We had it on vacuum pump for while, it hold vacuum, so it does not seem to have leak and we don’t know where we loose the refrigerant. The system was refilled and so far it works fine. Hopefully it will stay like this.