Composting Head - Solids Disposal at Marinas

[S/V Adeline]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I suspect you are right on all counts here Adeline. Which is why I would never raise the question with the marina (not that the OP is going to).

What I'd love to see, and would be a smarter regulatory response, is to institute some sort of proper collection service at the marinas. As the popularity of these heads grows it only makes rational sense to do this, just as was done with liquid effluent.

Pump out services are widely available (at least in some areas). There's no reason a similar collection system could not be put in place to take compost head material. If anything, it should be a lot easier to manage.

But I realize this would be a rational response, and governments are not always particularly rational.

While at the same employer I also spent time in pumper trucks, hauling anything from actual river mud to sewage. We operated a rather large line of 'porta-potties', where we would service construction sites, sporting events, etc. We had a fair sized section at the Talladega Super Speedway and also pumped RVs at that event. What you propose is not only feasible, it would be fairly economical as well. Makes absolutely perfect sense and there is a system already in place to implement it. All the driver would need is to access his onboard water (usually 200 gallons) and liquefy the compost for removal from the storage bin.
It's so simple and easy I am positive the U.S. govt would reject it, hands down.

[Dsanduril]

@Bill,

thanks for all of that. Yes, SE seems to be pretty easy-going in this regard, we're thinking about wintering a little further south next year (where the regulatory and NIMBY quotient is a little higher) for some work and refit, so that's what I'm thinking about. Places where we might be at the dock for more time than it takes to fill a bucket and won't have some nearby woods to fertilize.

FWIW, I did a little research and the EPA comes down:

Disposable diapers fall under the category of municipal solid waste, which means the material is safe to be disposed of in a U.S. municipal solid waste landfill. Modern landfills are well-engineered facilities that are located, designed, operated, and monitored to ensure compliance with federal regulations, which aim to protect the environment from contaminants, which may be present in the solid waste stream.

I assume that's more a matter of convenience than anything else, but it also means that work rules related to bio-hazards don't apply.

[S/V Adeline]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

@Bill,

thanks for all of that. Yes, SE seems to be pretty easy-going in this regard, we're thinking about wintering a little further south next year (where the regulatory and NIMBY quotient is a little higher) for some work and refit, so that's what I'm thinking about. Places where we might be at the dock for more time than it takes to fill a bucket and won't have some nearby woods to fertilize.

FWIW, I did a little research and the EPA comes down:


I assume that's more a matter of convenience than anything else, but it also means that work rules related to bio-hazards don't apply.

Working in Alabama I hauled the leach water from the county landfill. Working in Missouri, my next door neighbor actually traveled the country with a crew building landfills. From him I learned that the modern landfill actually covers a huge *bowl* that collects all runoff rainwater that leaches through the waste(very simplified, many actually have crawlspace underneath service water pumps). A properly designed and maintained system does not expose the surrounding land to any form of contamination. Full containment (leach water is held in storage tanks for disposal)
Back in Alabama, weekly the county water personnel would test the leach water and designated a location for dumping into the sewer system. Cleaner water was dumped closer to the treatment plant, dirtier water further away. Processed and returned to the environment(potable water).
It may be clean but I still *see* that water leaching through thousands of disposable diapers...things I wish I never knew LOL

[valhalla360]

We had one for several years while doing the great loop going into many marinas...often for a month or more...never once were we asked about our head.

Unless they also prohibit and police people putting doggie doo or baby diapers in, you aren't making the situation any worse.

Bottom line, unless you cause a problem (ie: you spill the urine all over the place while dumping in an onshore toilet), it's unlikely anyone will ever question it.

[Dsanduril]

[Off topic] Way back in the dark ages one of my jobs was testing the liners and caps on landfills for permeability. While they do encapsulate trash very well one of the downsides is the very slow rate of decomposition of the trash because there's so little air movement and so little moisture that bugs aren't that active. Landfill gas systems (methane collection) are much more active at older facilities with less engineering in their construction.

And landfill leachate systems have got to be the worst of the wastewater treatment systems. If you don't like the thought of that, don't pull back the covers on sewage treatment, lots of projects like the Tampa Augmentation Project (TAP) that are using infiltration of treated sewage into local aquifers, final filtration through the natural formations, and then back to your household tap from wells. The intellectual side of me knows it's all natural processes (if only the stuff that entered the sewage treatment plant was still all natural) and quite good treatment, the squeamish side of me would rather not know.

[Woodland Hills]

IIRC the folks at the airport that empty the onboard toilets have to be current on their hepatitis and cholera vaccinations. Is there a similar requirement for waste haulers and handlers?

Did that job for a year and never once saw an official checking on the process or being tested for anything except drugs. Training consisted of hook this up there, turn the pump on here, off when done and reverse the process when emptying the truck into the sewer system.

If human waste from boats in general and composting heads in particular is a concern, stay very far away from any large city on both coasts. More crap on the streets than in all the marinas in the world.

[apirate]

This isn’t an issue. We’ve been in high end and low end marinas, not once has ever asked if we have a composting head. They’ll assume you have a typical marine head. As such, let them do their thing with pump-outs(if required weekly like where we are now) and no one will ever know you’re using a composting head.

Bag the remains and trash it in the dumpster. As is the case with lots of forums, many here are keyboard warriors without real experience. These are the people who you’ve seen post about having issues with something that isn’t a real issue at all.

[Woodland Hills]

So what you are saying is that one should not inform one’s self of any local rules and regulations and simply lie (by omission) while disposing of your waste in the trash? That doesn’t seem very neighborly.
I don’t understand why some people choose to comply by pumping and others feel they are exempt by dumping. Given how the most recent deposits are essentially fresh, how is tossing it into a dumpster any different from pooping everyday in a plastic bag and tossing that in the same place. Would that be acceptable? Or is there some number of fresh bowel movements that is OK to toss in the trash and any more is not, and what is that number?

[S/V Adeline]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

IIRC the folks at the airport that empty the onboard toilets have to be current on their hepatitis and cholera vaccinations. Is there a similar requirement for waste haulers and handlers?

There were no such requirements when I hauled household and commercial waste, but as I already stated, those carriers are NOT authorized to carry hazardous waste so no training for it.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

So what you are saying is that one should not inform one’s self of any local rules and regulations and simply lie (by omission) while disposing of your waste in the trash? That doesn’t seem very neighborly.
I don’t understand why some people choose to comply by pumping and others feel they are exempt by dumping. Given how the most recent deposits are essentially fresh, how is tossing it into a dumpster any different from pooping everyday in a plastic bag and tossing that in the same place. Would that be acceptable? Or is there some number of fresh bowel movements that is OK to toss in the trash and any more is not, and what is that number?

So you use a composter do you? If you did you'd know even the fresh deposits are mixed into the dessicated material, significantly drying and diluting it. The material that comes out looks, smells and feels like rich potting soil. There is nothing offensive about it.

No, it's not composted. And yes, it's not something to be managed poorly. But it is certainly better than soiled diapers or used feminine hygiene products, not to mention all the dog poop people dump. All of this stuff appears to be acceptable into modern landfills.

[Chotu]

Seems nuts to think of dried human feces as any different from baby diapers or fresh doggie doo in plastic bags that are in the same trash.

Maybe people without these heads don't understand the volume of it.

Our monthly solid waste for 2 people full time, including peat moss tossed in to dry it is the size of a basketball.

I'd wager to bet the wet dog doo from a single mid size dog in a month is larger than that.

It really reduces in volume when the water is gone.

So maybe those getting all worried about handling biohazard (but oddly not worried about handling dog doo or baby diapers dripping with feces) don't actually understand how much or the consistency of what's being thrown out from the dessicating head.

It's about the size of a basketball in a month. It's dry. It's double bagged. It's directly into a dumpster so no human being ever touches it. The truck comes up and lifts it without the driver opening his door. Then it's dumped in the landfill without anyone touching it.

And don't you think filthy dogs have just a bit more dieseases than humans? Yet dog crap everywhere is fine with people?

Logic. We need more logic.

[S/V Adeline]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Seems nuts to think of dried human feces as any different from baby diapers or fresh doggie doo in plastic bags that are in the same trash.

Maybe people without these heads don't understand the volume of it.

Our monthly solid waste for 2 people full time, including peat moss tossed in to dry it is the size of a basketball.

I'd wager to bet the wet dog doo from a single mid size dog in a month is larger than that.

It really reduces in volume when the water is gone.

So maybe those getting all worried about handling biohazard (but oddly not worried about handling dog doo or baby diapers dripping with feces) don't actually understand how much or the consistency of what's being thrown out from the dessicating head.

It's about the size of a basketball in a month. It's dry. It's double bagged. It's directly into a dumpster so no human being ever touches it. The truck comes up and lifts it without the driver opening his door. Then it's dumped in the landfill without anyone touching it.

And don't you think filthy dogs have just a bit more dieseases than humans? Yet dog crap everywhere is fine with people?

Logic. We need more logic.

Agree 100%, but the simple fact is the good 'ol USofA has some pretty messed up laws/regulations. If a truck driver stops on the side of the road to allow his dog to go, he is required by law to clean it up and transport it to a dumpster. If the same driver just can't wait himself, and he bags it for transport to a dumpster that can be a potential $10k fine. Anyone with common sense should pause on that. Fines for not carrying animal waste, fines for carrying human waste. All in a country where you can download an app to avoid human waste on city streets (without fines!)
If I lived close to a marina I would be telling you to empty the waste in my garden!

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by S/V Adeline

Agree 100%, but the simple fact is the good 'ol USofA has some pretty messed up laws/regulations. If a truck driver stops on the side of the road to allow his dog to go, he is required by law to clean it up and transport it to a dumpster. If the same driver just can't wait himself, and he bags it for transport to a dumpster that can be a potential $10k fine. Anyone with common sense should pause on that. Fines for not carrying animal waste, fines for carrying human waste. All in a country where you can download an app to avoid human waste on city streets (without fines!)
If I lived close to a marina I would be telling you to empty the waste in my garden!

Agreed about the screwed up approach to regulations we often see. But to be fair, human feces is more dangerous to humans than dog feces. The reason is, human feces carries pathogens that can infect other humans. Dogs feces carries dog pathogens.

There is some cross-over, of course, but this is generally why feces from your own species is more dangerous than from other species. It's why we don't generally* use human manure on human food crops, but we happily use other animal manure as fertilizer.

*It can be used, but requires more processing and composting.

[S/V Adeline]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Agreed about the screwed up approach to regulations we often see. But to be fair, human feces is more dangerous to humans than dog feces. The reason is, human feces carries pathogens that can infect other humans. Dogs feces carries dog pathogens.

There is some cross-over, of course, but this is generally why feces from your own species is more dangerous than from other species. It's why we don't generally* use human manure on human food crops, but we happily use other animal manure as fertilizer.

*It can be used, but requires more processing and composting.

That is the primary reason I believe sooner or later it will become a regulated issue. Not because of the dangers, per say, but because of that one idiot with 3 functional brain cells whose kid has had the flu for days and he decides to empty his liquid stool filled bucket without even a bag. I have seen truck drivers do it in parking lots with a restroom 25 yards away.

[Woodland Hills]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Seems nuts to think of dried human feces as any different from baby diapers or fresh doggie doo in plastic bags that are in the same trash.

Maybe people without these heads don't understand the volume of it.

Our monthly solid waste for 2 people full time, including peat moss tossed in to dry it is the size of a basketball.

I'd wager to bet the wet dog doo from a single mid size dog in a month is larger than that.

It really reduces in volume when the water is gone.

So maybe those getting all worried about handling biohazard (but oddly not worried about handling dog doo or baby diapers dripping with feces) don't actually understand how much or the consistency of what's being thrown out from the dessicating head.

It's about the size of a basketball in a month. It's dry. It's double bagged. It's directly into a dumpster so no human being ever touches it. The truck comes up and lifts it without the driver opening his door. Then it's dumped in the landfill without anyone touching it.

And don't you think filthy dogs have just a bit more dieseases than humans? Yet dog crap everywhere is fine with people?

Logic. We need more logic.

Do dogs carry the Hepatitis or cholera virus?