Volvo Saildrive Problem: not engaging forward nor in reverse

[Sorcha2]

Looking for some leads for what I hope is a minor situation we have at the moment. The opposite conditions to the title. We have a S120B Saildrive attached to a Volvo 2002 so not particulalry new. When coming out of forward into the neutral position the drive is still connected in forward with clear propeller wash. Going into reverse and returning to a normal neutral there is no drive. Some months ago a similar thing was noticed and got it operating what we thought was operating satisfactorily after adjusting the cable to the Morse control but recently it was observed to be going back to being a problem. A cable adjustment does not seem to correct it this time. On detaching the cable at the gear change quadrant and operating it by hand it still tended to remain in forward gear in what should be the neutral position and again if placed in full reverse and back to neutral the drive stopped. My assumption is that there is possibly some wear in the system. Any thoughts?

[glovisol]

Inside the sail drive you have a cone assembly in bronze consisting of an upper cone and a lower cone. between the two cones there is a channel in which slides a command "flag" in stainless steel when you shift gears you turn this flag up, and it pushes the cone into the cavity of the top gear and you go reverse. When you go the other way, you push the cone down, you engage the contrary gear and you go forward.

If the drive is old, the cone assembly may be worn and does not make proper contact, so you lose drive at times. You have to unscrew the side cover, where the command cable attaches, and CAREFULLY retract it complete with the "flag". MARK THE POSITION OF THE FLAG, as if you mount it upside down the drive will not work any more. With a strong lamp you can look into the hole and check the command rail of the cones, to see if there is dysimmetry or wear. To replace the cone assy, you have to disembark the drive and open the top cover. You need a press to remove the top retaining sedger, then you lift up the cup springs and the entire vertical shaft assy comes out for inspection or replacement. Be careful of the needle bearings which are on the vertical shaft! There are some instructions on you tube.

I have complete instructions, but unfortunately they are in Italian.

[Sorcha2]

Thank you for coming back to me. I am new to the forum so unsure of the procedures. How may I get access to a copy of the article even if in Italian.

[glovisol]

I need your mail to send the pdf but this forum does not allow sending mail address. Another member used a trick, but I cannot remember what he did.

Kind regards,

Gianfranco

[glovisol]

you can write me: cweelo
@
gmail.
com

[frankcilo]

Originally Posted by glovisol

I need your mail to send the pdf but this forum does not allow sending mail address. Another member used a trick, but I cannot remember what he did.

Kind regards,

Gianfranco

Can you send me this pdf?
Thanks from italy 😉

francescociciriello@gmail.com

[ELMACH]

Hello,

I notice your experience can certainly help make sense of that situation. The context is that I had a delay (minutes) before gripping when engaging forward. Nothing else, reverse was working fine and I was able to cruise perfectly once engaged. No noise, no vibration, cruising nicely. Motor is at 1300 hrs, 2013 Xc-42 X-Yacht with the 75HP upgrade on the motor. I am the original owner.

I decided to had it investigated. Boat on the hard with a Volvo mechanic bringing the clutch to the shop for doing the maintenance and having a replacement kit on the plate, spring, etc.

We do this whole maintenance and when going back to the water, no more propulsion !?! Worse, no backward, no delay, nothing, just spinning at low speed.

Back on the hard, we are measuring the speed at the shaft and there is a problem. We measure about 280 RPM instead of 400. And then when we accelerate, the shaft is still at 280 RPM.
At rest, when we turn the shaft from the bottom with the lever engaged we can see the belt of the alternator turning on the other side so the linkage is working but looks like we are losing the grip as soon as we try to apply some speed.

I am at lost here. Still an issue at the clutch that would appear when trying to apply some kind of torque ? All of this without vibration or any strange noise. Worst than before as I’ve got no reverse and it does not engage anymore.

I will have the mechanics moving the motor again for inspecting the damper plate and now I am asked to consider replacing the whole saildrive !

I noticed one of your comment on a similar issue - a needle bearing collapsing deep inside the clutch. Does it sound like deja vue to you. Considering it was operating previously should I insist trying to repair the clutch instead ? Any other thing we should contemplate ?

Thank-you very much for sharing.

[Harlequin]

How very annoying - and expensive!

I'm no expert but it sounds like your Volvo mechanic isn't either, and may have botched the gearbox rebuild.

It is very important that the tolerances are exact when the top bearing (clutch) is rebuilt. There are choices of plates and washers / spacers that allow the specialist to get it just right. From personal experience, we had an 'enthusiastic amateur' do our rebuild at first - with the Volvo kit - and ended up with a very similar result to what you describe.

We then had to contact a marine gearbox specialist who removed the top assembly again, to take it to his very well equipped, specialist shop and do the job properly. On the second attempt, the gearbox functioned perfectly.

Top tip: not all the plates / washers / spacers in the Volvo kit will be used. There are extras there to offer a selection for the specialist to get the rebuild tolerances just right. You will have extras left over!

Ref your question concerning the needle bearings, no that's unlikely to be the problem but the gearbox specialist will be able to check those. Ours seized some years later in a different episode. On that occasion, time was short and another Saildrive was available so we grabbed it, lifted the boat, swapped it over and were underway (to Fiji) in 3 days flat. Not cheap, but effective!

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

[ELMACH]

Thank-you for the quick reply.
To be clear, we had replaced the plates etc. only with the top half of the gearbox/clutch at the shop. The bottom half stayed in place attached to the leg to avoid having to do some fiber (the hole is smaller than the leg). To complete this adjustment we need to remove the whole gearbox then right ? it cannot be done in place ?

[Harlequin]

Originally Posted by ELMACH

Thank-you for the quick reply.
To be clear, we had replaced the plates etc. only with the top half of the gearbox/clutch at the shop. The bottom half stayed in place attached to the leg to avoid having to do some fiber (the hole is smaller than the leg). To complete this adjustment we need to remove the whole gearbox then right ? it cannot be done in place ?

No, as I wrote...

"We then had to contact a marine gearbox specialist who removed the top assembly again, to take it to his very well equipped, specialist shop and do the job properly. On the second attempt, the gearbox functioned perfectly".

[Oldbark]

Originally Posted by glovisol

Yes, I can send photos & PDF of article in Italian

. I have a Volvo s120 c sail drive that only goes into neutral from reverse. Any ideas? And I would love more( any) information. jamesmjanus@gmail.com
Thank you for your time.

[Barty005]

Originally Posted by glovisol

Many "mystery" problems of the Volvo Penta model 110S or 120S saildrives are caused by a "hidden" but essential component, which is barely mentioned once in the Workshop Manual, but never clearly shown. This component is the SLIDING CLUTCH (foto below, inner parts shown).

The clutch joins the vertical output shaft of the gearbox to the vertical shaft of the saildrive's leg and, in normal operation, DISCONNECTS for a fraction of a second the propeller shaft from the gearbox shaft when going from FORWARD to NEUTRAL or from REVERSE to NEUTRAL with motor running at idle speed.

Why is this clutch necessary and in fact so important that, if it is not working properly, does not allow normal gearshift operation? The gearbox vertical shaft carries a bronze double ended cone which the gear lever moves UP for REVERSE, CENTER for NEUTRAL and DOWN for FORWARD. When pushed up, the cone fits into the cavity of the reverse gear, when in center does not engage, when pushed down the cone fits into the cavity of the forward gear. These two gears are counter rotating and are driven by the commong gear rotated by the motor output shaft.

The torque of the motor is high and the cone, to transmit this torque to the propeller, is made to stick inside the gear cavity with great force. When we move the gearshift lever, this torque will oppose to the move of the cone unless we REMOVE the load from the vertical shaft (which is the load of the propeller turning). The SLIDING CLUTCH does just this, because it lets the lower shaft slide when the torque overtakes a calibrated setpoint.

The sliding clutch is made with 16 outer rings + 15 inner rings pressed to a torque of 25 N/m. If the torque has INCREASED beyond the optimum value, it will be difficult to go from forward/reverse to neutral and in some cases it is necessary to switch the motor off in order to go to neutral. This problem happens because it is impossible for the oil present in the saildrive to "clean" and keep clean the rings so strongly pressed together. Eventually slush and very fine dust abraded from the rings will clog them and make them stick.

If the torque has DECREASED below the optimum value, then the saidrive will slip and once you have set forward or reverse you will have to give a burst of accelleration to make the rings stick and get propeller push. This easily happens if water finds its way into the clutch: a few drops of water will remove the viscosity of the oil ald the clutch will slip. Or, with age, the rings will be a little abraded and will require a re-torquing.

If this is of interest, I shall post the full procedure for overhauling the sliding clutch. Prudentially this operation should be done every time the saildrive is dismantled to change the big hull gasket.

Hi there your knowledge on these looks to be great hopping you can help having similar issues have noticed when reverse or forward are selected the vertical shaft changes direction but only sometimes fully engaging gear as you can tell as shaft speed increases a lot when fully engaged. Have noticed when not fully engaging with the adjustment bolt and shims Removed a small amount of pressure on shift dog and gears engage instantly have tried all sort of combinations with the shims unable to solve.