Sleipner/Side Power Failures in new units

[James E]

I have a brand new Grand Soleil 46 yacht which had factory fitted Sleipner/Side Power retractable bow and stern thrusters. The thrusters are wired to the house battery bank ( 570 AH capacity).

During commissioning the bow thruster started rapidly moving between port and starboard. It was then shut down and it was discovered that the coupling had sheared. Earlier that day the stern thruster had stopped delivering thrust. On further investigation it was discovered that the coupling had also sheared.

The local Sleipner agent initially blamed the problems on either “set up issues” or “low voltage”. Later its seems to have been accepted that the bow thruster issue was caused by a stuck solenoid/controller and the side to side movement is an attempt by the software to un-stick it (although one that resulted in sheared couplings). The new controller box and couplings took 6 weeks to arrive.

After installation both thrusters worked correctly, however 1 week later the stern thruster sheared the coupling again ( the stern thruster had been successfully operated in approximately 3 berthings since the new coupling was installed).

Annoyingly the plastic clip on joysticks on the dual proportional thruster controller have a habit of falling off if pressed low down and I have had to SuperGlue them on, since they were often falling off at critical times during berthing manoeuvres.

3 months since the initial problem, the marine electrician has identified that the stern thruster doesn’t seem to have any form of delay in it when it moves from one side to the other, whereas the bow thruster does have a delay. His theory is that it is an older unit where the delays were activated by relays, which seem to be missing from the unit. Apparently the new models have a delay built into the software, so the theory is that upgrading the software on the older model might help. I am yet to receive any confirmation from Sleipner on this theory and the documentation is unhelpful.

I have never activated the thrusters for more than a second or 2 at a time and the battery and engine temperature indicators on the controller have always showed close to full remaining capacity. On a couple of occasions the bow thruster stopped working with a “Communications error”, but then worked again after being turned off and on. I have also had occasional low voltage warnings from the B&G instruments that are connected to the house bank. There has been a high failure rate in instruments connected to the house bank ( depth sounder, auto-pilot controller, auto pilot rudder reference unit and windlass chain counter sensor) which might be related. The batteries are fine and have been tested by the marine electrician.

I’m not going to comment here on the level of engineering, quality control and support in this saga ( it should be obvious to anyone reading this), however it would be great to hear of any suggestions or experiences, given the glacial pace of support and in particular whether it should have been installed off the house bank and whether that is of adequate capacity.

Thanks,

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, James.

You should, probably, be using a starting/cranking battery, rated in Cranking Amps [CCA], rather than a deep cycle battery, rated in Amp-Hours [A/h].
Many manufacturers limit [at least, on paper] the maximum current of their deep-cycle batteries, emphasizing the fact that they are not designed for such use.

Of course, this doesn't explain coupling breakage.

The SLEIPNER SRV100 retract bow/stern thruster 12V specifies:
➥ https://www.sleipnergroup.com/thrust...n-thruster-12v
Current Draw 740A
Min. Battery CCA (DIN) 750
Min. Battery CCA (SAE) 1425
Min. Battery CCA (EN) 1320

[James E]

Gord,

Thanks for the reply. The coupling breakage is looking like it might be due to a lack of a delay in the thruster when it goes from one side to the other ( this was observed by the marine electrician), although I'm still waiting on Sleipner to confirm this. The house bank consists of 6 AGM batteries rated at 850CC/96AH each, so it should be more than enough. Also the performance of thrusters ( when they did work) was good and the thruster controller did not give a low voltage error, so its seems they are getting enough current and volts. Of concern is whether the huge current draw and sudden voltage drop on the house bank might cause the failure of other connected instruments.

[Loredo]

"Of concern is whether the huge current draw and sudden voltage drop on the house bank might cause the failure of other connected instruments."


It would be an important bit of information to know for sure what the rated power of the bow and stern thrusters is. Of course, then bigger the power taken out from an AGM battery, then more voltage sag. The sudden voltage sag can of course damage the electronics. Been there done that.

What I find a bit strange is that they take the power for the thrusters from the house battery bank. If the thruster is really calling for 740 amps @ 12V then that's close to 9KW. Out of your AGM house bank, really???


The first thing that comes to mind is the long cable runs needed to reach the thrusters. Secondly the voltage sag on the house battery. Compared to your Grand Soleil my Jeanneau is a cheapo but in my boat there are dedicated batteries for the bow and the stern thruster. Each with it's own battery. My thrusters are both Quick branded so no direct comparison to the Sleipner. With the Quick(s) there is a delay before it is possible to switch the direction. In my opinion being able to invert the rotation of the motor / prop must be very hard on the various components. Of course the weakest one is the first to break. Hmmmm....

[quandary]

I find the Sleipner controller for the stern and bow thruster (PJC212) with the twin joysticks works well but is very delicately built out of brittle plastic. I have now had two of them broken (about £600 a time) by simple bumping. Spares are not available to replace the complete joysticks so the entire controller has to be replaced each time.

[James E]

FYI - I was able to source inexpensive replacements for the plastic joysticks on the PJC212 through the Sleipner agent in Australia. As they had a habit of falling off when pressed firmly I have now superglued them on and that is working so far.

[quandary]

Thanks James
I'll try that.
Richard

[James E]

Update - I have heard that Sleipner are aware that there is a weakness in the couplings on these models and that multiple boats are affected. Apparently they don't have an an engineering solution yet. Another replacement coupling was installed on my yacht and yesterday I ran the thruster for less than 2 seconds at about a quarter of maximum power. It sheared the coupling. I have not received any formal communication from Sleipner and no product recall has been communicated. In the interests of safety I suggest that anyone with these retractable thrusters be aware that they are liable to sudden failure and not rely on them until there is a proper communication from Sleipner on the issue.

[quandary]

Thanks James, I have to purchase a complete new PJC212 unit for nearly £700. This is the third one I have had to buy. The guys at Osmotec (agents for Sleipner) tried to get me complete replacement toggles without success probably because there is no way to fit them.
It should be OK, as a practical fix, to just glue them on because there is no way to repair the fragile little clips that hold the toggles on.

[SV-Viento]

Originally Posted by James E

FYI - I was able to source inexpensive replacements for the plastic joysticks on the PJC212 through the Sleipner agent in Australia. As they had a habit of falling off when pressed firmly I have now superglued them on and that is working so far.

Just to add - brand new side power bow thruster system. On second use the joy stick knob fell off. Will absolutely bring to the attention of builder who I have complete confidence will address but it’s a problem that should not be.

[James E]

I wish you good luck. After more than 6 months of trying to resolve through the warranty process, I still do not have a working stern thruster.

[silvercreek]

This sounds awful, sorry you are experiencing it James. I have a 2021 Grand Soleil 42, the baby sister to yours. I have the plain buttons (full on or full off) and have not had any issues with my Sleipnir unit. I wonder if it’s in the variable controller? Either way, best of luck.

[James E]

Silvercreek, hope you are enjoying the boat - a lovely boat and I'm sure she sails nicely. I don't think the controller is the cause of the couplings shearing, although its unacceptable that the joysticks fall off if pressed firmly ( equivalent to the brake peddle falling off in your car if you pressed it hard.....). My primary suspicion is that the flexible couplings haven't been made strong enough.

[James E]

Update : The local "support agent" felt that the voltage as measured at the stern thruster of 11.8 volts was too high. Strange, given it is a 12 volt system and there was nothing in the Sleipner documentation about this ( the only mention of a voltage range in their documentation gives up to 16 volts as acceptable). In order to resolve this yacht importer picked up the cost of installing a separate battery pack for the stern thruster. After this and after the stern thruster coupling was replaced again ( 3 had sheared), it has worked fine, although has not been subject to heavy use. So maybe the voltage was the problem or maybe Sleipner had re-engineered the coupling strength in the replacement units ( there was no communication from Sleipner on this). The bow thruster has not sheared again, the apparent logic being that the long cable run from the house bank drops the voltage enough to prevent it from being overpowered.

[silvercreek]

Originally Posted by James E

Update : The local "support agent" felt that the voltage as measured at the stern thruster of 11.8 volts was too high. Strange, given it is a 12 volt system and there was nothing in the Sleipner documentation about this ( the only mention of a voltage range in their documentation gives up to 16 volts as acceptable). In order to resolve this yacht importer picked up the cost of installing a separate battery pack for the stern thruster. After this and after the stern thruster coupling was replaced again ( 3 had sheared), it has worked fine, although has not been subject to heavy use. So maybe the voltage was the problem or maybe Sleipner had re-engineered the coupling strength in the replacement units ( there was no communication from Sleipner on this). The bow thruster has not sheared again, the apparent logic being that the long cable run from the house bank drops the voltage enough to prevent it from being overpowered.

I have heard rumors about this being the case (the Sleipner motors being wound for low voltages), so it is not a surprising outcome. I have my bow thruster connected to my LiFePO4 house bank, with a relatively high voltage of ~13.2V. So I have been watching this and other similar situations with bated breath. Luckily for me, I have not yet encountered a failure. But I did notice a lot of graphite “dusting” my bow thruster compartment. I think it’s material from the motor brushes. See this thread for photos. Have you noticed anything similar?

I intend to install a dedicated AGM bank at the bow for the thruster/windlass this winter as a preventative step against failure. It should lower the voltage a bit, and simultaneously fix the annoying dim of the lights when thrusting.