For those who have taken a comprehensive 101, 103, 104 course...

[marisleonardo]

Originally Posted by AbelCMann

In 2012 I took a one-week live-aboard course in St Thomas that included 101, 103 and 104. There were a married couple, a father and son, and myself as students. Coming aboard we were greeted by the Captain who made it clear to all that she "was not a morning person, so if we got up early we were to be very silent. She was not kidding. It was almost 9 a.m. when she crawled out of bed, surly and snarling that we ( who had been up for hours) had been walking on deck directly above her bunk. There was a nice breeze but she chose to have a workbook day. The next day there was no breeze, so out we went to learn and practice maneuvers. With a 3 knot wind that did not hold steady we tacked, we jibed, we heaved to. Everybody had two turns at the wheel and we got checked off the list as being proficient. The week played out that way. During the day the Captain was generally texting to the Captain of our sistership, with whom she had a romantic relationship, and they would decide where to meet up for dinner. Live-aboard did not extend to dinner. We were brought to a different restaurant or beach bar each night, where the Captain's meal and drinks were comped for delivering paying customers. We all passed the course with flying colors. I was prepared for an intensive week of sailing with high standards and demanding situations to deal with. This was an expensive farce. I cannot say that this was typical of all ASA schools, but it was certainly my experience. Yes, I have the certificates, but I consider them to not be a valid appraisal of my abilities.

Abel... as an ASA Instructor evaluator, I appreciate your candor about this instructor And am truly sorry about being subjected to such uncaring professionalism.
This is not our process proceedure and you should inform and find out what this ASA school will do to correct this poor service. If the school is not willing to engage and let you know what its done to correct this, then please contact ASA to report the inadequacy of this school and its instructor.
ASA does not want schools that do not serve the best interest of beginning sailors and the sailing community.
And all of the contributers here are correct in that experience beyond any acedemia will always perfect the skills...so i hope you are still sailing and are becoming a master of this woderful fun lifestyle endeavor!
Sea ya, Steve

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by medevicerep

I took a combined ASA 101 and 103 course over a period of 4 days. I was expected to have pre-studied all of the course materials, which I did. I passed the course but honestly, I would not have felt ready to charter any boat solo until I had more experience. I joined a local sailing club when I returned home and got a lot of hands on experience with the club owned boats. They were all dinged up but seaworthy and none of the members got upset with our learning dings and dents. Bottom line, get the training but get some "time on the water" before you go off on your own.

I use the analogy with my students that training is much like Drivers Ed, it gives you a base of knowledge and hands on training, but experience is built outside the classroom.

This either/or (training/hands on experience) discussion comes up often here. The optimal learning approach is not either training or hands on experience, but a combination of both. The ASA standards are actually intended to be delivered this way (class, experience, class....). Though certain combos are appropriate (like 101/103 above), many are intended to interspersed with experience. The combo class approach can easily be over done. Often there is student/market pressure to deliver a bunch of classes in combo, but its really not the best way to learn.

I suggest to new 104 graduates that they build some experience, either with a captain and/or more experienced friends, before chartering on their own.

This is also where a club environement is great for learning because the students can take out the very same boats they trained on in the same familiar venue. This is a great way to build confidence and experience before jumping onto an unfamiliar boat in an unfamiliar venue.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by AbelCMann

In 2012 I took a one-week live-aboard course in St Thomas that included 101, 103 and 104. There were a married couple, a father and son, and myself as students. Coming aboard we were greeted by the Captain who made it clear to all that she "was not a morning person, so if we got up early we were to be very silent. She was not kidding. It was almost 9 a.m. when she crawled out of bed, surly and snarling that we ( who had been up for hours) had been walking on deck directly above her bunk. There was a nice breeze but she chose to have a workbook day. The next day there was no breeze, so out we went to learn and practice maneuvers. With a 3 knot wind that did not hold steady we tacked, we jibed, we heaved to. Everybody had two turns at the wheel and we got checked off the list as being proficient. The week played out that way. During the day the Captain was generally texting to the Captain of our sistership, with whom she had a romantic relationship, and they would decide where to meet up for dinner. Live-aboard did not extend to dinner. We were brought to a different restaurant or beach bar each night, where the Captain's meal and drinks were comped for delivering paying customers. We all passed the course with flying colors. I was prepared for an intensive week of sailing with high standards and demanding situations to deal with. This was an expensive farce. I cannot say that this was typical of all ASA schools, but it was certainly my experience. Yes, I have the certificates, but I consider them to not be a valid appraisal of my abilities.

I encourage anyone who has a bad training experience to report that experience to ASA. ASA has made a strong effort in recent years to improve the quality of its schools and instructors, but if they don't get feedback they don't know.

Each student should receive an email from ASA asking for a feedback survey to be completed. Please do complete this survey.

ASA does take complaints seriously and repeated complaints can result in the instructor/school having their credentials revoked.

You can PM me the details and I will forward it on to the appropriate staff in ASA. This is an open invitation to anyone with a bad experience. Low quality instructors/schools are bad for the students and the industry and I will be happy to help eliminate them.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by marisleonardo

Abel... as an ASA Instructor evaluator, I appreciate your candor about this instructor And am truly sorry about being subjected to such uncaring professionalism.
This is not our process proceedure and you should inform and find out what this ASA school will do to correct this poor service. If the school is not willing to engage and let you know what its done to correct this, then please contact ASA to report the inadequacy of this school and its instructor.
ASA does not want schools that do not serve the best interest of beginning sailors and the sailing community.
And all of the contributers here are correct in that experience beyond any acedemia will always perfect the skills...so i hope you are still sailing and are becoming a master of this woderful fun lifestyle endeavor!
Sea ya, Steve

+1...and hello from a fellow IE.

I became an IE (Instructor Evaluator) to contribute to improving the quality of ASA instructors. There used to be an IE (fortunately no longer active) who would certify anyone with a pulse and ability to pay the fees. I was appalled by that behavior, and in an ironic way he was my inspiration for becoming an IE.

I encourage everyone to please report bad experiences to ASA and help eliminate low quality instructors/schools.

[ruby tuesday]

no i would not charter my boat to someone that didnt have a proven sailing history. i would be wanting to ring up the skipper that they served under and also the training school that they got their certs from.

my boat has a draft of 9ft and a plumb stem so it's no to shallow water and a big no no to slinging the hook too.

in terms of sailing skills i's be wanting to know if they really knew what they were doing and you don't learn that in say 4 days - it takes years to be able to read whats going on and then judge it. Sorry but certs are the start and people just passing in 4days should always have a skipper on board to make sure that things run smoothly.

[Nicholson58]

We are 36 tons and very complex. No, We would not charter bare boat. The variable pitch prop transmission alone is over 20,000. I would consider only as captain & crew.