Hunter 460 rigging

[Garbgreg]

Hi
I am in the process of buying a Hunter 460, and ther has been a lot of talk from the Rigging experts about the life expectancy of the rigging. It was pointed out to me that on the Band R rig if the forestay fails, there can be a catastrophic failure, sounds logical. Also, I am told by the rigging inspector that as it happens they really cannot inspect the forestay due to the furler, also sound logical.
Does anyone have any knowledge of a failure on these rigs? Is it common? Should I really be concerned about a lightly sailed 16 year old rig?
I am not planning to cross oceans, but I am wondering how soon I would need to replace the standing rigging to be safe???

[Tkeeth]

I have a 97 430, similar, regularly maintained and inspected. I did some research when I puchased the boat and to my knowledge there was only 1 430 that has failed. I am assuming the 460 is the same setup and should be similar. Many old B and R Rigs out there in the world and my rigger never mentioned any of the points yours brought up. I would suggest if your really concerned about the forestay, and it is truly uninspectable, it wouldn't be that bad to just replace it. I have had mine offshore in 30 plus knots, no problems so far, and its a few years older than yours..

[Garbgreg]

Thanks for the quick feedback.
The inspection was just completed except of course the forestay. They did find some frayed wires. As many as three strands in places. One problem spot is at the intersection of the x's up top. Also where the lifelines have rubbed..
Where did you hear of only one failure?
The rigger is telling me that even to change just the forestay the mast mustt removed.
Does anyone knownif that is the case because he makes a logical point that if you dissassemble the mast. You should update all the wires.

[Tkeeth]

I had found the one instance just researching 430 issues online. Might google search b and r rig demast and see what pops. As far as removing the mast to change a forestay, i have never done nor seen it, but there has been recent discussion here about how to do it without, such as using you halyard to tie off to the bow. Maybe consult another rigger.

[sailorboy1]

The only thing the forestay holds up on a B&R rig is the headsail. There isn't even tension in the cable.

Get a new rigger as the one you have doesn't even understand the rig.

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by Garbgreg

Hi
I am in the process of buying a Hunter 460, and ther has been a lot of talk from the Rigging experts about the life expectancy of the rigging. It was pointed out to me that on the Band R rig if the forestay fails, there can be a catastrophic failure, sounds logical. Also, I am told by the rigging inspector that as it happens they really cannot inspect the forestay due to the furler, also sound logical.
Does anyone have any knowledge of a failure on these rigs? Is it common? Should I really be concerned about a lightly sailed 16 year old rig?
I am not planning to cross oceans, but I am wondering how soon I would need to replace the standing rigging to be safe???

First of all, a forestay failure in any kind of rig can be serious, not just in a B&R rig, 2.... 16 years with the OEM rigging is to much , the boat pass the comfort peace of mind line , then is up to you if you can trust the rigging or not ...3.. these rigs are higly stressed by nature, to reach the proper forestay tension the uppers are higly tensioned due back sweep spreaders and here you can think about point number 2 ... is not my favorite kind of rig , failures?? who know... I don't think more than a masthead or fract rig setup, 16 years is in my mind calling for replacement, some folks can tell you that if there is no visuals cracks can last a bit longer but no one is going to tell you how bad is inside of a swage terminal....

[Garbgreg]

Thank you all. I am grateful for all of the feedback.
I am quite sure that If I go through with the purchase I will replace the rigging in the not too distant future. I am really trying to assess two things, basically how urgent the replacement is i.e. how dangerous it really is , and if there is any sense in just doing whats necessary to make it safe which I thought was all dependent on the forestay, but according to Sailor boy 1, the forestay is not holding all of the weight as my rigger led me to believe.

Are catasrophic failures common on a 16 year old boat that has never seen. Long term rough goin??
Thanks all of you!

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by Garbgreg

Thank you all. I am grateful for all of the feedback.
I am quite sure that If I go through with the purchase I will replace the rigging in the not too distant future. I am really trying to assess two things, basically how urgent the replacement is i.e. how dangerous it really is , and if there is any sense in just doing whats necessary to make it safe which I thought was all dependent on the forestay, but according to Sailor boy 1, the forestay is not holding all of the weight as my rigger led me to believe.

Are catasrophic failures common on a 16 year old boat that has never seen. Long term rough goin??
Thanks all of you!

Well , the forestay is your only hope to keep the mast for falling backwards, no forestay and the mast is gone, and to keep the mast from falling forward you have the uppers ...no backstay here, its a feature of this rig,, how safe it is??? inspect your rigging and you found the answer, furler forestay to, catastrophic failure? if the forestay is under minimuns , then yes, but like in any other old rig.

[sailorboy1]

Believe what you wish, an owner or a historical bashed

[Jim Cate]

You say that you found wires with three strands "frayed". any rational analysis says it is now time, actually past time, for replacement. Take it from one who has been dismasted at sea: you really don't want this to happen to you!

And as to whose advice to respect, well, you have above the choice between an owner with a few years experience sailing his Hunter or a professional rigger who has worked on a great many of them. He may not like Hunters, but that does not mean that his advice is bad.

As for my advice, I'm just an interested amateur who has spent a while at sea and in boatyards, but I have personally replaced forestays and furlers without unstepping the mast. If you are paying someone to do the work, and you are going to replace all the rigging, it is probably cheaper to take the mast down, for it is slow going doing it one wire at a time, and labour charges will soon equal the stepping costs.

Oh... another factor to consider is that many insurance companies will not cover rigs over 10 years old. Have you checked with yours?

Jim

[robert sailor]

If you have strands breaking it is a clear indicator that your best before date has passed and it is time to replace all the rigging. Often the breaking starts on the inside so if its going on the outside to me its only a fools game to leave it as is.

[skipmac]

If by frayed you mean some of the strands in the wire are broken then I wouldn't hoist a sail until I replaced the rigging. If all the rigging is the same age then replace it all. If you're buying a 46' boat it isn't all that much, relatively speaking. You can by the way inspect the wire in a forestay with any of the roller furlers I know. It's a bit of a pain because you have to take it apart and slide the foils off the stay but it can be done.

All new rigging including turnbuckles, tangs, chainplates etc for my 42' cutter was just a bit over $3000.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

You say that you found wires with three strands "frayed". any rational analysis says it is now time, actually past time, for replacement...

Standard construction rigging practice specifies:
Replace wire rope if there are
•6 or more broken wires in one lay
•3 or more broken wires in one strand in one lay
•3 or more broken wires in one lay in standing ropes

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Standard construction rigging practice specifies:
Replace wire rope if there are
•6 or more broken wires in one lay
•3 or more broken wires in one strand in one lay
•3 or more broken wires in one lay in standing ropes

I'm almost positive that doesn't apply to 1x19 construction. This replacement schedule is more appropriate for something like 7x19 rigging slings


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

... This replacement schedule is more appropriate for something like 7x19 rigging slings

Indeed.

[quote] Standard construction rigging practice specifies [/quote