Cockpit enclosure

[pwillems]

Hi All. I am about to invest in a full cockpit enclosure and am interested in opinions on what questions I should be asking the guy when he comes to do up a quote tomorrow. The obvious questions I have thought of are what canvas, thread and clear vinyls he will be using so that I can investigate the quality myself before handing over the money... What else should I be asking?

Any particular brand/grade of materials I should be insisting on?

[Captsteve53]

You seem to have covered, really only one fabric to use and this is the original Sunbrella, the clear screens if using just check on what is being offered and the thickness of material/UV rating.

If using a professional service yacht type guy I would be surprised if he dosent recommend the above,

[Captsteve53]

Sorry, just forgot the thing that many forget, pay particular attention to what is available/on offer re the zips (if using) as i see many suffer from UV issues and fall apart way sooner than the fabric

[Alan Mighty]

For vinyl marine hooding in the great south land, I dinnae think you can do better than Mariner Boat Hooding from Nolan.

Pick your colours from: Mariner Boat Hooding | Nolan.UDA

[Kenomac]

We chose WeatherMax for fabric instead of Sunbrella six years ago, and very glad we did. The material holds up much better to the elements and still looks new, no bagginess or thread bare areas.

[Three Sisters]

I would insist on Tenara type threads. Maybe thru bolts where possible and sealant on the mounting hardware to protect any core materials in the deck and/or coamings.

And ask information on the types of fasteners such as eyelet, snap or twist. Hmm, what else ?

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by pwillems

Hi All. I am about to invest in a full cockpit enclosure and am interested in opinions on what questions I should be asking the guy when he comes to do up a quote tomorrow. The obvious questions I have thought of are what canvas Weather Max 80, thread ptfe and clear vinyls Strata glass he will be using so that I can investigate the quality myself before handing over the money... What else should I be asking?

Any particular brand/grade of materials I should be insisting on?

Now, I don't actually know if Strataglass can be rolled, like for egress from the cockpit, but it is beautifully clear.

We're in the process of converting from Sunbrella to WeatherMax for our canvas. We have used Marine Hooding for the dodger. The latter has lasted perhaps as much as 8 years. It has lost its flexibility, has shrunk, and is beginning to become permeable through the fabric as well as the stitching. However, we specified Tenara thread when we ordered it, and the only thread that has failed was the one row of stitiching that was accidentally done in V92. (Dacron) I think we might use marine hooding again, but I am not fond of it, due to its propensity to accumulate dirt and mildew. I have a friend who says biweekly wiping it with white vinegar will keep it mildew free, and it seems to have, on hers, and we sail similar locations. Possibly a PM to her, Sapient Sue, will yield more information for you.

Having the stitching be of ptfe thread is paramount. Otherwise, the most you'll get out of it is 4-5 yrs. One brand name is Tenara, but it's probably more easily sourceable as ptfe thread. SailRite probably has a tutorial on it.

You should ask him what is available, and the costs thereof. You should be telling him what you want. Sometimes they don't like to use ptfe thread, because it is fiddly to get the proper tension with. If your supplier is disinterested, find another. It is the only thread I, a rank amateur use now, for canvas, anything outside. I'm an old biddy, and if he doesn't want to use it he/or she is lazy.

Best of luck with it.

Ann

[Kenomac]

Ann,

You won't have any of those issues with the WeatherMAX, ours is still tight as a drum, very little fading and no water gets through. When I'm able to compare it to some folks who have Sunbrella on their boats and also to a few Sunbrella bits on our boat, there's a huge difference.

[SailFastTri]

Ditto on the Tenara thread. Also, be very careful about the quality of clear vinyl used, some of it is pure junk. Stamoid is going to wear better and look nice far longer than Sunbrella, and because it's vinyl it will not have any waterproofing issues. My Bimini is made from Stamoid and I like it better the the Sunbrella dodger it connects to. (It is color matched to the Sunbrella). The only downsides are for the maker, because Stamoid will not tolerate being restiched if the maker has to rip out a seam (it will leave the holes from the row of stitches), and it doesn't stretch as easily as Sunbrella, so measured tolerance is less forgiving.

[J Clark H356]

My dodger, Bimini and full enclosure was done in 2003 with the upgraded Sunbrella in Captain Navy and goretex thread. I used stratiglass on the Bimini front and sides and I have a couple of overhead small panels of stratiglass. I used the standard vinyl on the rear sides and stern panels. I keep the rear and stern panels on the boat from October thru mid May. I am on my 15th Year. I have replaced Bimini stratiglass twice and have a couple of panels tha will be replaced next season. The normal vinyl has not been replaced on the removeable part that stays on about 6 months a year. One year, we never took off the removeable portion because we went to Florida for the winter and left it on while cruising and just rolled up the sides when it was warmer. We have replaced several plastic zippers.

Use the best grade of Sunbrella, use the best goretex thread and have the best canvas maker construct it. I use the 303 made fir Sunbrella occasionally when an area on the Bimini begins to look saturated after a rain. Wash with normal soap and water.

I am in Tennessee, not the tropics, but mine has weathered very well and is still going strong after 15 years. The stratiglass will roll up. We have the mid dodger panel that rolls up and keep it that way most of the summer. It stays down in cold weather and when we are cruising in the rain.

[jkindredpdx]

I would also ask how they sew in zippers, are they covered or not, and where they add wear patches or other reinforcement.

[s/v Moondancer]

Make sure it is easy to get in and out of the cockpit and easily rolled up and out of the way in bad weather...

It is far more important to be able to work the boat in bad weather than to stay out of the rain.

In heavy weather, F8 and above, we roll ours up to reduce windage.

[Paul L]

We have Stamoid vinyl that outlasts Sunbrella by many years.
If you are going to use this in the tropics that consider getting shades made at the same time. We have phifetex mesh panels that made to the same pattern as the clear panels. Keeps the sun out, let's the breeze in and reduces rain when at anchor. We use the phifetex panels way more than the clear panels.

[barnakiel]

I make ours in acrylic canvas. I found the lighter grades not fit as too much light was coming thru. Now I use what feels like 250 gram stuff.

A better thread is well worth an extra buck. I remember people said Technora brand makes something real good.

And YES there are various grades of the window material. Some degrades way too fast (within a year in the tropics). I am using some stuff imported from Germany right now. It seems very good - 2 years into the windows are still perfect.

As for the shapes - I like the enclosure to reach to the stanchions rather than just the coaming. We have canvas all around the cockpit stanchions so this way we gain space and air under the enclosure.

I think I have found some nasty small flies are attracted to yellow. I may be wrong on this but they bite, so I am am no longer building ours in yellow.

Have fun buying / building.

Cheers,
b.

[canman]

To add to this great conversation - Pricing, knowing there are tons of variables- We were quoted $6600 by one firm and $7000 by another for a new dodger, bimini, and full enclosure on our aft cockpit Freedom 39 using our existing frames- Sunbrella with 40 mil clear windows - how's that sound?