Resale value for older cats?

[riki]

I have to admit it: i can't afford the cat i want!
After looking at many ads and negotiated some i always end in the same situation: or i buy something that i know will have lots of compromises (read small and empty) or something old.
After reading a lot i think that i would not have problems in purchasing an older boat (talking about '90ies) considering that, depending on brands, might be even better quality than newer BUT i have something that do bother me: resale. If i buy a boat that now has let's say 25/30 years, will be ever possible to resell it, if maintained, in 5/10 years? Or nobody will be interested in something that have 40 (FORTY wow) years?
Shortly: does it make any sense thinking that a boat with almost +30 years is getting into the "unsellable" category?
cheers

PS: i am after cats as catana, privilege....maybe outremer.

[krafthaus]

For an older cat you should get a pretty fair deal and it will be well depreciated in terms of price. I’ve read opinions of others that older cats will actually reach some price and then hold their value after that.

The one proviso, however, is that you’d need to keep it well maintained, clean & tidy to realize your selling price and not have it For Sale for years.

But assuming you’d like a clean & well maintained boat for your own use this shouldn’t be a problem.

Interesting question since our Lagoon 420 is a 2008 model that we will likely sell in 10 years give or take. So not as old as you are asking about but some of the same issues that we will be dealing with.

[boatman61]

Well.. I remember viewing a Heavenly Twins catamaran back in '95.. the guy was asking GBP19,000 for it.. I ended up buying a mono instead, a Westerly Longbow for a coupla grand less.. a much better boat for my needs, however..
If you follow this link you will see that more than 20yrs later those same boats have a GBP17,500 asking price..

http://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/boats.phtml?id=1153

Much depends on condition as I have seen the same boats around 10K and less being sold as projects.
Most of these boats are lucky if they do between 500 to 1000nm/year.. the rest of the time they're sat in a marina or on the hard for the winters.

[Rapanui]

All my last three boats appreciated in value significantly, a Telstar tri, Iroquois and Maldives cats. That's for mainstream and popular boats. Bespoke and rare is different. All were over 10 years old

[riki]

Thanx for all replies.
As said i would maintain the boat in the best condition i can......still wonder if a 40 year catamaran can have a market. In 10 years all cats built in the '00 will be in their thirties and should be cheaper than now: their interior is undeniably morespacious and confortable that the oldercatamarans of the '90.......consequently the older cats will/should lose market and/or value.
Sorry if maybe i am not able to explain exactly what i mean, hope you understand my concerns.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by riki

Thanx for all replies.
As said i would maintain the boat in the best condition i can......still wonder if a 40 year catamaran can have a market. In 10 years all cats built in the '00 will be in their thirties and should be cheaper than now: their interior is undeniably morespacious and confortable that the oldercatamarans of the '90.......consequently the older cats will/should lose market and/or value.
Sorry if maybe i am not able to explain exactly what i mean, hope you understand my concerns.

in principle you are correct, however there is true inflation of 5% or so going on every year. So nominally, prices can go actually up. Cats will likely remain popular as they can be used as comfortable liveaboard in location of your choice. there is large number of retirees coming up globally and, not insignificant portion, mainly ones that see themselves fit, will be interested in this mostly healthy lifestyle, if one minimizes use of alcohol and drug.

Then you have smaller group, mono converts that after criticizing cruising cats to death on CF, after get bit older, shamelessly switch to cruising cat !

[rbrentp]

Take a look at the older Prouts as an example. I won't begin the touting as I own one. But they are, in well maintained shape, still good sellers. In looking at the market for cats, it has always struck me as odd that and old Snowgoose like mine seems to have a tip top shape ceiling of maybe 50K. The next spot on the scale for just about anything newer or larger in even fair condition starts at 100k and zooms up. The Gap between the two is always puzzling to me. What Cats exist that are good, solid, etc. at 35 feet or more in the 75K area?

On the subject of illogical things, the number of boats between 1990 and about 2005 that had the crappy foam backed vinyl glued on the walls is amazing. Looked at a Privledge and several others in that era and the foam gave up and the walls are sagging or letting go. Replacing it is a horrible job even if you are not in a warm climate. Ask someone about removing the junk on a hot sweaty day and keeping the yellow brown dust off them and everything else.

They kept putting the stuff up for years after they knew it wouldn't last.

A forty year old boat in good shape is not likely to have many surprises. Something in the 10-20 YO zone (depending on actual sailing) seems to be where the structural and big cosmetic issues show up. Those sorts of surprises can be really unpleasant.

As has been said before, what do you want, a solid cruiser or a documenium/weekend sailer? That makes a lot of difference.

[robert sailor]

One thing I have noticed that might be a benefit to buyers of older cats is that many of them sailed much better than the current stock. Just the very fact that the hulls were smaller, rigs larger and topsides lower made them more seaworthy and quicker. Many of them are more attractive for the same reasons. Personally i think an older cat that has really been looked after might be an excellent buy.

[Rapanui]

Getting back to the OPs question 'will the boat If i buy a boat that now has let's say 25/30 years, will be ever possible to resell it, if maintained, in 5/10 years? Or nobody will be interested in something that have 40 (FORTY wow) years?
-I purchased a 1970 Sailcraft Iroquois in 1989 which was 19 years old, sold it at 29 years 1999 for nearly 50% more than I paid, the same boat now is nearly 48 years old and worth about the same as I sold it for in 1999. Admittedly the boat was a cosmetically bad when I bought it but structurally sound. Ithink a big factor in this was the large UK inflation in the 70s and 80s which meant new boats became many times more expensive and this dragged up the value of used boats.
- I purchased a 1989 Fountaine Pajot Maldives in 1999 and sold it in 2010 at 21 yrs for 50% more than I paid for it. It is now worth at 29 yrs from +10% to 20% more than what I sold it for. We did little cosmetic work and a number of minor upgrades.
Of course this is in £note terms and does not take account of inflation.
My conclusion is that provided the boat is a well known model sold in reasonable numbers, and acknowledged to be free from major design or build issues, then the value of a boat in reasonable condition tends to plateau after about 10 - 15 years. So my answer to the OP is yes, stick to the mainstream and you should get the roughly same or more £$ or Euro back at 40 years as what you paid at 20.

[smj]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

One thing I have noticed that might be a benefit to buyers of older cats is that many of them sailed much better than the current stock. Just the very fact that the hulls were smaller, rigs larger and topsides lower made them more seaworthy and quicker. Many of them are more attractive for the same reasons. Personally i think an older cat that has really been looked after might be an excellent buy.

[emoji1303][emoji16]my thoughts as well.

[wannacat]

We purchased our 1992 FP37 8 years ago wondering the same thing. However it was in our price range and had all we wanted. Galley up, 2 heads, good accommodations for 4 or more if required. But ideally she would take 2 to the Bahamas for 3 months typically and carry all the dry goods, beer, water and pop you could consume in that time frame. 2 simple and efficient Yanmars and a set of sails for when the conditions were right along with shallow draft. Was I worried that the boat would deteriorate over time? Nope, not if you keep her up. Fiberglass has stood the test of time. We still have a 1977 C&C27 in the family and would take it out in any conditions and she'd come back in one piece. Lets face it, our plastic fantastic "fiberglass" , call it what you want, is very durable when cared for properly. Most boats from the 70's, 80's and 90's were overbuilt. That's why there's so many still around. Yes, you may have to rebuild engines or sail drives, replace sails , electronics or hardware, redo some of the interior, but the base of the boat is there to set her up the way you want to. Or if you got the cash, go drop $400 plus and get a new one. But that doesn't mean you won't be without issues. The first year we were on the hard redoing the bottom paint, cutting open the keels and rudders and filling voids from the manufacturer, there was a brand new 40 some foot cat beside us that apparently the diesel kept disappearing in? They found the leaking new fuel tank , however the diesel was disappearing into the core of the hulls! So they were cutting the sides open on each hull and and refilling! Under warranty of course but this thing wasn't even a year old. The guy doing the warranty said they were now checking a few other boats and felt they had hull problems also so they were stopping production of them in Taiwan. This guy paid over 500K for this thing new, I can't even imagine why he would keep it! I see boats identical to mine still in the same price range as what I paid and I can see why. Their 1/4 the price of a new one and bullet prove,look good and sail well, just fix em up the way you want and enjoy. Or go buy a new one and just like a car, when she leaves the lot she drops 20-30% right off the bat! But unlike a car, the body of our boats doesn't rust out you'll have a residual value for many years. Also just like "boatman61" said, we've only put between 700 to 900 nm on her every year, that's not much wear and tear!
However, in our case it's time to move on as we've gotten a little older and less limber, so we're putting her up for sale. PM me if your interested and I'll forward price and details.

[valhalla360]

Assuming it's in decent running order, you can easily sell a 30yr old boat...don't expect new boat prices but inflation tends to cancel out depreciation after around 15yrs. The value is in the bones, not the new boat smell.

Where a boat typically reaches the end of it's life is when major repairs come up.
- If you have a boat valued at $150k and need to dump $30k into replacement engines, it makes a lot of sense as you will likely lose far more than $30k on the resale if the engines are shot.
- But if the boat is only worth $30k and you need $30k into the engines...your problem isn't resale value but how to dispose of the boat.

[riki]

Hey guys, thank you very much for all the opinions that are indeed very encouraging.
Basically agree with all the points of view specially talking about prices and inflation, makes a lot of sense also looking at what is going on with older prouts that still have a price and a market. And of course, if the direction of producers still goes in the direction of condomarans, as will, a good quality good sailor cat should always be ableto finda someone that appreciate these qualities.
All that said i feel encouraged to make an offer (did one for an athena but didn't work out) next week and let's see what happen.
Cheers

[CdS2 Roland]

Hello,
Didn't read all answers, but one thing is sure : you can't save money and owning a boat is expensive.
We bought a monohull built 1985. It's the SY we wanted, did a complete refit. She is safe, every body tell us we have a beautyfull SY. Investments are about the double of what I could expect from the market. If one day I resale my SY, I will be happy for the next owner and for my SY. During the time you turn around to find the best investment, others who accept to loose money over the years are sailing around the world.
XOXO from French Polynesia ��

[riki]

Originally Posted by CdS2 Roland

Hello,
Didn't read all answers, but one thing is sure : you can't save money and owning a boat is expensive.
We bought a monohull built 1985. It's the SY we wanted, did a complete refit. She is safe, every body tell us we have a beautyfull SY. Investments are about the double of what I could expect from the market. If one day I resale my SY, I will be happy for the next owner and for my SY. During the time you turn around to find the best investment, others who accept to loose money over the years are sailing around the world.
XOXO from French Polynesia ��

Well, it's not my intention to save money owning a cat, even if i think that i will eventually charter it sometimes......but that said, and i might be wrong, i think there is a lot of exaggeration about how expensive it is owning a boat.
Some days ago i was reading a post about somebody giving price estimations about renovating an old privilege: 50k for mast....50k for engines and so on. Then i made a research online and easily discovered that you can find used masts for 2/3k and similar for engines. I mean, if you are the "boss" kind of person that grow money from trees and like to get everything done by others yes, owning a boat can be really very expensive. But if you are the kind of operson that has the time for the DIY way and looks after saving.....well, owning a boat i think it's a completelly different kind of expense.
Cheers.