Getting Fiance Interested in Sailing

[aegean adrift]

If she only has two years to go, it could be worth completing that investment for the long term. Even if you don't see the point.

[jm21]

I can understand the point. Oz seems to offer very large benefits to young families.
Also very good unemployment benefits. Far beyond anything offered in Taiwan or the US.

But for retirement unlike the US the Oz retirement system is means-tested and you're only supposed to get it if you remain in-country. Pretty much worthless.

The Oz medical system seems to be absolute crap compared to Taiwan. Compared to my situation in the US it's pretty bad, but Taiwan is definitely the best.

[Wand]

Originally Posted by jm21

I can understand the point. Oz seems to offer very large benefits to young families.
Also very good unemployment benefits. Far beyond anything offered in Taiwan or the US.

But for retirement unlike the US the Oz retirement system is means-tested and you're only supposed to get it if you remain in-country. Pretty much worthless.

The Oz medical system seems to be absolute crap compared to Taiwan. Compared to my situation in the US it's pretty bad, but Taiwan is definitely the best.

Oz does offer good benefits for families but the biggest benefit is jobs. Unlike most comparable economies, Oz did not go into recession recently.

The Oz retirement system is means tested - as it should be. But it's hardly punitive. Last time I checked a pensioner could have several hundred thousand dollars worth of assets in addition to the home and still get a pension. And the means test is similarly lenient. And like most countries these days, Oz has reciprocal agreements with numerous other countries to allow freedom of residence in retirement.

Furthermore, Oz has had universal superannuation for the past twenty years. Both the emloyee and employer contribute to the employee's super fund at a rate that guarantees youngish workers today (who stay in work) would very likely never have to rely on the age pension. It's also a truly brilliant way to increase national savings, which in turn helps avoid the recessions (the Oz economy has not been in recession for two decades).

But the Oz health system is "crap"? Wherever did you get that zany idea from? Oz has had universal health care since the early 1980s. Higher income earners may choose private health cover mainly for elective surgery but they also remain covered by the universal guarantee. Everybody else is covered for health care from the local general practice through to full care in public hospitals. Some general practices require a co-payment but the hospitals require none. And the level of that care is high by any international standard.

I raise these points for no reason other than to correct your evident misconceptions on these issues.

[mintyspilot]

Originally Posted by jm21

$400 per night of use. E.g. if you spend $4,000 per year and take it out for 10 nights/year. Or $8,000 per year and take it out 20 nights. I used almost all my vacation time last year traveling to other countries but had to replace a motor and installed a new head/holding tank. Not a good year.

Perception is everything. Tell her it costs $400 a day and she'll tell you that you're mad. Tell her it costs $4000 / 365 = $11 per day and you will defuse the issue.

[Wand]

Originally Posted by mintyspilot

Perception is everything. Tell her it costs $400 a day and she'll tell you that you're mad. Tell her it costs $4000 / 365 = $11 per day and you will defuse the issue.

Yes, that was the point I was making about number crunching in an earlier post. Rather than make a case for himself, he's actually making her arguments - don't think I'd sign him up as my lawyer . It must be luurrrrve.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by jm21

She had her tourist visa to the US denied because she had an American boyfriend and we decided to get engaged so she could actually come here.

Yeah... what is it with this Racist US Policy..... back in the '80's my sister was dating an American guy who had been 'loaned' to her company as an adviser... soon as his bosses heard about it he was transfered and she came within a hairs breath of losing her job... just for liking each other...
Got me very Anti America for quite a few years... how dare they insult my family in this way...

[maytrix]

Originally Posted by mintyspilot

Perception is everything. Tell her it costs $400 a day and she'll tell you that you're mad. Tell her it costs $4000 / 365 = $11 per day and you will defuse the issue.

Rather than try to sell a financial aspect of it, keep it simple. I'd say the boat is part of the package. Plain and simple.

If the boat has to go because she doesn't want it, he'll resent her for it and that won't be good for their marraige.

[SaucySailoress]

As usual, Kate has the right answer.

Make a choice. Choose between her and the boat. If you love her, then marry her, give up the boat, buy a NEW house (one that will belong to you both) and live contentedly for decades after.

Then, when you get older, and the kids have finished college, and you start wishing you were afloat (like, to be fair, many of the guys giving you advice); buy another boat, do it up, spend more time on the boat than her, have a bunch of arguments, give her the house you both made together, move onto the boat, and finally trade her in for a younger model and start all over.

That should sort it.

[SaucySailoress]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Yeah... what is it with this Racist US Policy..... back in the '80's my sister was dating an American guy who had been 'loaned' to her company as an adviser... soon as his bosses heard about it he was transfered and she came within a hairs breath of losing her job... just for liking each other...
Got me very Anti America for quite a few years... how dare they insult my family in this way...

To be fair, it was probably for the best. After all, you say the guy was American?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Saucy Sailoress

To be fair, it was probably for the best. After all, you say the guy was American?

I suppose so..... she's been living in Canada now for 20yrs and has 4 kids, seems happy so maybe I should be saying.... "Good on yer Reagan...."

[VirtualVagabond]

Originally Posted by jm21

I can understand the point. Oz seems to offer very large benefits to young families.
Also very good unemployment benefits. Far beyond anything offered in Taiwan or the US.

But for retirement unlike the US the Oz retirement system is means-tested and you're only supposed to get it if you remain in-country. Pretty much worthless.

The Oz medical system seems to be absolute crap compared to Taiwan. Compared to my situation in the US it's pretty bad, but Taiwan is definitely the best.

I'm gobsmacked that these considerations are even going through your mind...

I assume you're young-ish, professional... you should be feeling the world is at your feet.The only consideration should be, where is there a place of endless opportunity to build a great life?
Australia qualifies hands down.
Examining all the 'freebies' is the sad, small minded, style cramping, dependency mind set that governments, society and the media have indoctrinated us with, even here in Australia.

By the way, we've already got more freeloaders coming here for what they can get, rather than what they can build for the good of both themselves and the country...

If these security issues are determining your course of action....

Are you sure even sailing is for you? Seems to me it's a bit like only sailing if the wind is never going to exceed15 knots, it won't rain, and you can leave your anchor down... just in case...

Maybe a lot more Mark Twain and Jack London, a bit less Vladimir Lenin and Karl Marx...

[VirtualVagabond]

Originally Posted by jm21

She had her tourist visa to the US denied because she had an American boyfriend and we decided to get engaged so she could actually come here.

Originally Posted by boatman61

Yeah... what is it with this Racist US Policy..... back in the '80's my sister was dating an American guy who had been 'loaned' to her company as an adviser... soon as his bosses heard about it he was transfered and she came within a hairs breath of losing her job... just for liking each other...
Got me very Anti America for quite a few years... how dare they insult my family in this way...

Boatman... their forefathers shot holes in your forefathers and booted them out the country... you're not usually so slow to get the drift

[jm21]

Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond

I'm gobsmacked that these considerations are even going through your mind...

I assume you're young-ish, professional... you should be feeling the world is at your feet.The only consideration should be, where is there a place of endless opportunity to build a great life?
Australia qualifies hands down.
Examining all the 'freebies' is the sad, small minded, style cramping, dependency mind set that governments, society and the media have indoctrinated us with, even here in Australia.

By the way, we've already got more freeloaders coming here for what they can get, rather than what they can build for the good of both themselves and the country...

If these security issues are determining your course of action....

Are you sure even sailing is for you? Seems to me it's a bit like only sailing if the wind is never going to exceed15 knots, it won't rain, and you can leave your anchor down... just in case...

Maybe a lot more Mark Twain and Jack London, a bit less Vladimir Lenin and Karl Marx...

As far as jobs go I'm better off in the US, no question. I make decent money, can utilize my education better, and pay minimal taxes. Making money would never motivate me to move there. I'd take a cut to my gross income and probably pay more taxes from the looks of it, so a significantly lower net income. Here I'm self-employed and there's enough gray area in the tax code that I can get pretty creative, so my net income is fairly high...only reason I can think of for moving there is to take a less stressful job and mooch off the government and my employer.

[Wand]

Originally Posted by jm21

As far as jobs go I'm better off in the US, no question. I make decent money, can utilize my education better, and pay minimal taxes. Making money would never motivate me to move there. I'd take a cut to my gross income and probably pay more taxes from the looks of it, so a significantly lower net income. Here I'm self-employed and there's enough gray area in the tax code that I can get pretty creative, so my net income is fairly high...only reason I can think of for moving there is to take a less stressful job and mooch off the government and my employer.

Sheesh pal, to think that earlier on in this thread I thought you were genuinely after assistance and helpful advice. But the longer this thread has gone, the more you reveal not only your ignorance about other places - and refuse to stand corrected - but your cash focussed and insular outlook generally. My final advice to you is: when you're in a hole, stop digging.

PS: Oz has a list of occupations which are in demand and for which working visas are granted. Lawyers are not on that list.

[VirtualVagabond]

Originally Posted by jm21

As far as jobs go I'm better off in the US, no question. I make decent money, can utilize my education better, and pay minimal taxes. Making money would never motivate me to move there. I'd take a cut to my gross income and probably pay more taxes from the looks of it, so a significantly lower net income. Here I'm self-employed and there's enough gray area in the tax code that I can get pretty creative, so my net income is fairly high...only reason I can think of for moving there is to take a less stressful job and mooch off the government and my employer.

Fair comment. It's what I would have expected. So why the issue over a lousy $4000 in mooring fees?

I've reached the grey and grizzley stage, at last!
And I'm lucky enough to have learned a bit about relationships to the point where I know from too much first hand experience, relationships that work are the ones where BOTH partners accept each other for who they are and what they do.
None of this... "he/she's mostly ok, and I can slowly work on the other bits."
You've got to love their good points, and be HAPPY to forgive the things you might have liked to be a bit different.

It doesn't sound like she understands this yet.

You love to sail and you have a boat. It's part of the YOU she's supposed to love. You also earn the bucks and can afford it. She's got to get over it and count the other blessings of a relationship with you.

Also, rushing into a marriage because of a legal requirement is lunacy... but deep down you know that. I suspect your gut instinct is worrying you... it's why you posted here in the first place. Heed the gut!